...so I decided to tell them what God DID NOT mean to me instead. I thought it better to remove as many preconceived ideas as I could, or at least ensure there was less assumption from the start. I realised afterwards that I overlooked something when I answered that question. Do I believe in the idea of belief? Does it really matter what I believe? Could it be, that by simply holding a belief, whatever it is, it will always be something that ultimately gets in the way? It seems to me that to hold a belief, some idea has to be felt to be true. It has to make sense, feel right, and some kind of shift in consciousness takes place because of it. Once this happens, it is true from this point on. It is part of who I am now. Anything other than this, it wouldn’t be a real belief. So by its very nature, a belief involves an element of 'no longer needing to stay open' once it has been accepted. But we know things change. Impermanence is what life is about. What once seemed real, important, vital even, leaves, just like a dream does. Some say the only right way to live is as an open-minded skeptic. Consider everything, attach to nothing, not unless it comes with irrefutable proof. Skeptics know that believing in something gets in the way. They say: Show me proof first, and if I can accept it, and other people agree with me, then maybe I'll believe it. Is there anything that will allow a true skeptic to do that? Doesn’t this go against the fundamental concept of scepticism? Isn’t scepticism a belief too? When I find I have a belief, even if I didn't realise I did, I get to decide whether I continue to have it. But what if having ANY belief means I'll always need to let it go? Is there something better than this? When I let go of a belief, I create a space where it once was. In the past, when I did this, something else often came in, almost before I'd noticed it. I've had many kinds of belief during my life. It no longer matters how real they were, I still let them go at some point, as I recognised them as beliefs I no longer wanted. By recognising beliefs, and being ready to let them go, while remembering that I wouldn't be who I was without having had them, I get closer to a state where I no longer need to have them at all. This space brings a sense of presence, of stillness; a thoughtless, mindless, awareness, that just is. I don't lose myself when I let go of what I believe, everything I am just gets clearer.
Core beliefs are the very essence of how we see ourselves, other people, the world, and the future. Beliefs that hold true throughout our lives, that guide us thru times of doubt and adversity.
Why is it that so many feel it’s important for everyone else to believe as they do? When I was a child I believed in the Christian god because my parents and their Protestant congregation told me it was real. Then the Catholic Priests , Brothers and Sisters did the same. When I got into my teens I started to doubt because I was growing up and needed to think for myself and to believe in different things for my own reasons. I started asking questions to the different religious people around me and every single one of them told me that God was real BECAUSE - because they said so, because the church said so, because the Bible said so - And boy did they all get mad for some reason when I said I needed more than that. I was told that I needed to believe and have faith but I couldn’t believe and have faith in something that I was beginning to highly doubt and was never given a single shred of proof... Now I don’t want to believe in a God that kills women and children and firstborn sons And it’s fine when he does it but we should never ever dream of doing it. I don’t want to believe the in a god that says I can’t work on Sunday no matter what - and if I do that I can’t get the big prize at the end - or believe in a god that won’t allow a pious jungle child - an innocent, or a beautiful, loved Buddhist monk to enter his eternal joyous home just because they’ve never been exposed to the Christian religion - I don’t want to believe in a God it gives us a tremendous urge to procreate but when I eyeball my neighbors hot wife through the fence because of this that I now have to spend any ternal doing damnation whether I physically did anything or not. I swear to Jeebus I wanted to believe - but I simply can’t. @esseff - good thread. I liked your first main post. J
What drives you on a fundamental level is whats being asked. Sometimes people arent aware of their own belief at first. Whether it be family, religion, comfort, safety, to fit in with the group...etc Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
No I get it J. It makes perfect sense that you wouldn't be able to believe it. Being asked to believe something someone else tells you to because they say they do is ridiculous. I had a similar issue at my Jewish orthodox primary school and at the age of 7 rejected them. Needless to say this did not go down well. There is a difference in having to believe an interpretation of an idea that can only be experienced, and knowing what it means to experience something that does not require believing. We like to use Cannabis. And while not as powerful as some of the other substances out there, it can certainly open some of the doors in preparation to more. My point being... ...that there IS something to find, something that is more than just an interpretation, more than some kind of mental construct. Something and also nothing, which is the paradox. For the moment you start to think you know what it is, it isn't, and you don't, as it is easy for the ego to make it into something else, and before long you're wanting others to believe what you're certain of too. So, the God of the books, taken so literally, used as a tool, an instrument, to control and impose, when were it actually real, it would require the very lightest of touches to connect to. That's why you struggled with it. It wasn't your creation, and as a result actually turned you away. I can't say what you know to be true that doesn't require putting into words, as those words would not describe it, just as their words didn't. It is not supposed to be. But I have felt the orchestration of it many times, seen it work before my eyes, felt something that is not separate from me, which expects nothing from me other than to be who I am. A big part of this journey is to know thyself, as so many of the teachings talk about. If our religions helped us with that without needing to cover themselves in stories, dogma, ritual, ideology, which ends up revealing the corruption that is inevitable as a result of it, we might have something to trust and work with. Ultimately, we're supposed to break away from that kind of thinking, to go beyond it, beyond belief, into truly knowing who we are. Everything comes out of that.
I understand what's being asked. What I'm asking is to name one or more of these core beliefs, so I can see what is meant by what drives you on a fundamental level, before I can go into it any deeper.
Would you say core value or core belief? I stated core values, which to my “belief” and understanding of a persons personality would equateish to a core belief=core value Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
I’ll never say that I don’t believe in God or a supreme being because I simply don’t know… I will say that there is a lot of miracles out there - and Nature is one that awes me - I’ve spent too much time out there not to be awe stricken... It’s the “God of the Bible” that I have my hard time with - can’t help it and don’t see it changing. J
I think for many it is this “God of the Bible” that is the issue. And rightly so. It isn't necessary to find a better idea, something you can accept, to replace it with, although I am sure there are things that resonate with you. But you are not closed and that is what matters. What we find is personal anyway. The miracle of nature, a sunset, the simple things that reveal so much if we take the time to look. 'God' is all around us. It IS us. We are it. All is one and the one is all.
Or another way of saying that is...what you put out is what you get back. Right. Thing is, this is not a belief. It is one of the fundamental truths of the Universe. The Five Universal Truths It applies to everyone, everywhere, and no belief is necessary for it to do so. Obviously when you understand it you can make it a bigger part of your life, a more conscious action, because we all want to be treated right. How can we expect to be if we aren't willing to give it to others? However, just to play devil's advocate for a moment. The way you put it is still a belief that has different outcomes for different people. It is not a universal idea. Let's say I like to feel pain (I don't), and in certain sexual situations enjoy a little masochism, should I be able to do this to others because I would have them do it to me? An odd example in many ways, but it highlights the idea that it still needs interpreting in a way that might work for one but not for another. Perhaps you have a better example of a core belief that doesn't?
A belief or definition, which is a value you choose to live by, or just live by because you carry it; many people do not realise they are following a programmed pattern of behaviour they never actually chose. The personality, which is also a kind of construct, coming out of beliefs and definitions, experience, choice, upbringing, etc, is subject to change just as it came into being from nowhere. Formed as you became aware, an interface between you and the world, and we know how big some of them can get. It isn't real it just FEELS real. Habit making it that way.