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CBD Concentrates RSO/FECO Potency Testing?

Discussion in 'CBD Oil' started by CHSAdmin, Feb 23, 2023.

  1. Howdy,

    How many members make their own RSO/FECO and have had it tested for potency? If you would be so kind, reply with the potency %, and if you used the original RSO recipe or a QWET/QWISO. Did you winterize as well? Curious what potency people are getting at home.
  2. Hash Master 5000 - Dry Ice Method, Hash Oil Capsules, Everclear Tincture, RSO
    I make it from the bud scraps left after power shaking what I grow for the Kief.

    I run this through a 3 gallon pot still to recover the high proof ethanol, reduce to tar, add coconut oil and lecithin and fill capsules with it.
    When I looked into testing the Kief I shake and the capsules I make the prices quoted were prohibitively high for something I was only mildly curious about. I know it's strong. LMAO the people I gift Hash and RSO capsules to don't ask how many mg the stuff is.
    I can ballpark closer nowadays with dispensary products to compare against but I was in the game with my guesses all the same.

  3. upload_2023-2-25_6-5-5.png
    Here you go!
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. I am going dark for 30 days. Lets connect at the end of March. I should be able to bring your TAC up to 70+ with some simple changes.
  5. ??????
    This should be interesting
    Thoughts? @BrassNwood @JMcGD
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. #6 Joker1121, Mar 2, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
    Is TAC Total Active Cannabinoids?

    It must be complicated or @CHSAdmin could have just posted his tech.
  7. Yes, TAC. And Its mind numbingly simple, but I have to update the website and documentation, plus get the lab tests back in order to have my ducks in a row for March 31st.

    This is simple little tweak goes against everything people believe in making RSO. Sometimes, questioning assumptions leads to breakthroughs..
    • Winner Winner x 2
  8. #8 Joker1121, Mar 3, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2023
    @CHSAdmin, Thanks! I am sure anxious to check this out! Looking forward to your conclusions.
    I'm glad that you can reference tests. @PsychedelicSam, RIP, could back up his early work with lab tests and it was helpful. He met with much resistance early on and the testing was important.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Greeting Everyone,

    I've moved up the announcement date, got all my ducks in a row so here it is -

    Today is a new day in making RSO or FECO. RSO and FECO are unrefined cannabis oils which are nothing more than “La Brea”, as I affectionately call it. Unrefined RSO and FECO typically fall in the range of 30-40% potency. Using this new process immediately raises the potency up to the high 70s producing clean oil you can vape. Change two things in the way you make RSO and you now have "Refined Cannabis Extract" oil. These simple changes will be standard on the way you make oil going forward. Nothing for sale, the process is free to all who make their own oil. This is my Pay-It-Forward to make lives better.

    Here's a video that will walk you through making oil. You can now take 2oz cured plant and have decarbed winterized oil ready for vaping in under two hours with two simple changes in the way you make RSO.

    Here's the naming convention for Refined Cannabis Extract, aka RxCE. The ‘x’ in the name is the solvent used for the bulk extraction. This covers the various ‘flavors’ of extract -

    R.E.C.E - Refined Ethanol Cannabis Extract (replacing FECO)
    R.I.C.E - Refined Isopropyl Cannabis Extract (replacing RSO)
    R.A.C.E - Refined Acetone Cannabis Extract
    R.E.A.E - Refined Ethyl Acetate Cannabis Extract (sounds like Ray)

    Your thoughts?
    • Winner Winner x 1

  10. Thank you for sharing
    It will take sometime to digest
    If you could expand on the potency issue and how this differs from the current extraction methods?
    Folks will ask you how this makes their product more potent
    My ignorant assumption is that this method is more efficient
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. This sounds straightforward enough. Do you have any lab tests?
  12. On the RxCE Home Page, just below the 7 point graph, there's a link to the 7 test results.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Yes, in the morning.. :) Sorry, I tried, long day..
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Morning. Sorry, last night I wrote out a reply then realized I probably dont understand your question. Can you give me context to 'the potency issue'? I read that from a few different perspectives. Are you asking about RxCE potency and test results or RSO/FECO in general?
  15. If you could briefly explain how this method improves potency
    My guess is that it collects more cannabinoids
    If you could elaborate on this point it would he!p my understanding
    Is it the wash or collection of the oil that improves potency?
    I did a version of this by accident when my beaker broke in a pot of boiling water but I had done cold extraction
    • Like Like x 1
  16. #16 CHSAdmin, Mar 16, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
    Oh, okay.

    First, lets agree that potency is the percentage of Total Cannabinoils of the overall volume of concentrate. 79% Cannabinoilds can be broken down into the individual compounds of THC, CBD, CBG, CBN, etc. Looking at my last lab test that has 69.3% CBD in a total of 79.1% cannabinods, some people might consider the CBD concentration to be the overall potency. From an extraction perspective, the Total Cannabinoids is the accurate measurement of potency. And that leads me to the next point, why certain concentrates have a plateau of high 70%s.

    So, when you wash the plant in alcohol, either ethanol or isopropyl, it dissolves a mix of cannabinoids and plant compounds. The longer the soak the more plant compounds are added to the wash. 99% Isopropy is best to use because its less polar than Ethanol so it sucks up less plant material compared to ethanol in the same exposure times. I ran tests where I did a 5 minute and a 12 hour isopropyl wash on 1 oz of hemp, then immediately boiled both down and measured the oils. The 5 minute soak delivered 2ml of oil, but the 12 hour soak delivered 5ml! The longer soak didn't pull more cannabinoids, it pulled plant material. Doing the Rapid Winterization on both and final reduction brought both down to around 1.5ml each. All that to say, there is a substantial amount of plant compounds in an unrefined oil such as RSO and FECO if no winterization is done. My first lab test with no refinement shows Total Cannabinoids to be 34%. (BTW, have you found the lab tests on the website?) The second lab test shows Total Cannabinoilds to be %54 percent because I used water in the boiler but didn't winterize afterwards, leaving the waxes in the oil. The rest of the tests are distilled in brine or distilled water then winterized. These test show Total Cannabinoilds to be in the upper 70s.

    So why is there a plateau of high 70s Total Cannabinoids? Why not up to 100%? Distillates and Isolates can reach upwards of 99.9% purity. Reason being, these products are purified through additional refinement using lab gear that takes the oils and boils out each compound individually. Thats tough to do for most of the world ouside a lab. Butane and C02 extractions are very clean in raw form compared to RSO because the gasses match the molecular characteristic that liquify the cannabinoilds without dissolving the plant compounds. Its this oil, after additional cleanup, which is typically used as input to the Distillate and Isolate manufacturing. That give you context to the high end purity and how to achieve it. But that also tells you the theoretical limit of what simple extractsions such as Bubble Hash, Rosin, RSO, etc is capable of reaching, and thats theoritcally about 80%. On the RxCE homepage, you first run into a dark gray graphic that shows the historic potencies of RSO, ROSIN, RxCE, then distillates and Isolates. Think of it as two different playing fields. RSO, ROSIN, RxCE, etc. are subject to fairly crude extraction methodologies and represent the range of 0-79.9% potency. Its takes additional refinement to move to the next level, and thats with lab gear which produces Distillates and Isolates.

    Now, is RxCE unique? No. I'm using two known steps to refine cooking oil. The most significant of the two is Winterization. This has been used for years to clean up gas and solvent based based cannabis extracts. The problem is, its not optimal, especially at home. It takes 12-24 hours to freeze both alcohol and plant material to do a QWET and QWISO extraction. With this one refinement, winterized cannabis extracts can reach the high 70s in potency.

    How is RxCE different? I made an observation this past summer that plant waxes survive the initial bulk distillation that removes/recovers the alcohol. RSO uses a Crock pot open boiler to remove the alcohol by boiling it out, but leaves the waxes in the oil. By using Ethanol to rehydrate the oils using a 10:1 ration, there is a whole lot less solvent to cool down and conversely the oils are a higher concentration in the ethanol. Thats the first optimization, less alcohol. But there's a chemistry one as well. On the Future 4200 forum, room temperature winterization has been observed and discuss for years. What is seen is the higher polarity of Ethanol squestering the high concentration of non-polar lipids in pockets. The result is a high concentration of waxes in tiny spaces that start to crystallize starting at room temperature. I observed this as well went putting together RSO 2.0 2022. Here's an interesting picture that visually shows this sequestering/pooling of non-polar compounds. I purposely made this mess which settled out into a pattern. This is polar/non polar separation at work. You can see this on the RxCE home page, the middle image of three pics.

    So is RxCE better? Its a lot less time consuming. But you dont get refinement for free. This process reorders the steps in making RSO, adds water distillation, and performs decarbing of the final reduced oil. So there are new muscle memories to learn using this process, ie, new ways to go about it. For instance, distilling in water. In the original RSO, the distillation is stopped before boiling dry, then the solution moved to a smaller reduction setup. With RxCE, the remaing water/emulsion has to be dumped while saving the oils and sediments. That's a new art, so it will take ppl time to learn how to do that efficiently (the upcoming 'RxCE Shop Manual' will cover that). Doing the Rapid Winterization is conceptually close to Winterization, but is a different excercise. Decarbing after final reduction might be new to people and requires proper cooking appliances to make it work optimally.

    Hope that helps. Did start answering your question? [​IMG]

    • Like Like x 1
  17. #17 Tokintb12, Mar 16, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2023
    It will take some time to sort this out
    Potency and purity can be misconstrued by me so I want to be careful
    I was having a hard time understanding increased potency
    Are we pulling more cannabinoids out of the material or making a product with higher purity is what I should have asked

    I would like to take the time and thank you for sharing your knowledge
    Even if it takes me a week to fully appreciate it
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Interesting additions to the old methods. If I still offered RSO I’d check it out. The license I have currently only allows for the manufacturing of water/ ice hash. If I wanted to do full extractions it would mean over 100k in lab equipment and a commercial kitchen. The market I’m in wouldn’t support it, and I’m more of a flower and bubble hash fan myself.
    Now, my bubble hash can always be improved upon! I’ll check out the Future 4200 forum. It sounds like it’s more industry oriented.
    Edit: just looked around a bit over there.
    I’m in.
    I mean…. Cannoli’s!!!?
    Wtf… how did I miss these?lol!

  19. 4200 is where I learned to filter and clean my tinctures
    Industrial as fuck, lots of great info
    Need to brush up on my organic chemistry more to get through the site quicker
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1

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