Meaningless assumption. Considering how that's every other drug works, that's definitely a meaningless assumption. Normal behavior is instinctual. Yes I would agree that most people who trip experience the same things, because I'm quite certain that the chemical effects the individual's brain the same way much like how we all know how being high feels. As for the trip when sober, there's definitely plenty of crazy people in the world. You don't have to point them out to me. If the mods are pissed that we're having a discussion then they can delete my posts.
science has an extremely limited understanding of how many drugs work and psychedelics are among the least understood. different sensation would be correct. false sensation is simply a meaningless assumption. words like normal, high, and crazy are pretty meaningless as well. they are objective terms meant to describe what is ultimately subjective experience.
I won't disagree with you there. We are still limited by words to convey how being high or tripping is. But even then, I'm finer with absolute uncertainty than anyone claiming what they're enduring is actually real. I don't subscribe to the matrix reality argument. I believe our sober reality is in fact reality - but that's a completely different and long argument - which I'm sure you know I'd be using science as my ammo False sensations I'd still reaffirm. I've seen shit that I know couldn't have been there on acid. (But like the other user said, maybe this discussion is getting too reliant on talking about substances which we're not allowed)
the problem with science is that when it doesn't fully understand a phenomenon it is comfortable labeling it with a word like dream or hallucination or delusion or false sensation and leave it at that. just a crazy person. madness. it is the same thing as someone labeling it god. both are rooted in real phenomenon able to be experienced, which is all life is. an experience. you contradict yourself saying you are fine with absolute uncertainty as opposed to someone who claims that their experience is real when you go on to assert your belief that consensus reality is in fact real. the brain can only experience as much of reality as exists. to suggest that altering perception renders reality as something phony i would say is fairly naive when considering human perception is so limited when science itself supports the existence of entire spectrums of light outside our normal ability to perceive as well as the existence of dimensions in the same space we occupy yet within a different frequency. is cannabis not a psychedelic drug? i haven't mentioned anything specific otherwise.
Quite the contrary. The face you see on the wall IS there. The walls ARE bubbling in and out, as well as all the other crazy shit you're seeing. If you can't believe your eyes, what can you believe? Sober reality is what we're used to, doesn't mean it's all there is. Explorer | Inside LSD | National Geographic Channel Maybe this is on to something, increased perception of "reality" while tripping? Who knows man, keep an open mind.
my mom believes in god, but i quit believing at age 7.. just the way i think, it always just sounded like a whole bunch of made up bullshit to me i guess.. i respect everyones right to believe though, cause who knows i could be wrong.. i just feel church was really creepy, like they talk bad about cults but they are a cult.. they say bad things about this and that, but they do that and this.. the average chruch goer hates weed, so are they saying God made a mistake when he created weed.. idk i just dont believe, and especially didnt believe after i started smoking weed.. my uncle and aunt make me go with them sometimes, and i just sit their and feel real awkward... i think it's wrong to force me to go (christians i have met, always try to force their religion onto you it seems), but they are letting me stay with them for now so im not going to disrespect them.
nahhhhhhhh man agnostic is COMPLTELY different than athiest. whether you're a theist or an atheist, your position is based on faith. there is no real way for us to know whether there is or is not a god. i was born on earth, and have lived here for the past 20 years, so i have no valid opinion on whether or not we were created by some super-powerful being, nor can i say for certain that we were NOT created by that same being. the point is, we DONT KNOW! im ok with that, but a lot of people aren't. btw im just talking about the overarching belief of whether or not there's a god, im not referring to specific religions, which are creations of Men. Men who were not divine, nor could magically commune with the divine.
We know how are senses are sober and we know how our senses are while hallucinating. LSD without a doubt, alters how our brain functions and thus distorts reality. Our reality is testable, which is how our whole system of mathematics/science emerged. There's nothing testable about hallucinations. As far as a contradiction, maybe I walked into that. I wanted to act nice instead of go on the rant I usually do with people who use hallucinations as support for their beliefs.
bolded for truth. some people aren't going to sway their opinions though man. sometimes it's a lost cause.. don't be so negative! chances are that you have a quite more valid opinion than people who have lived much longer than you. this post was filled with 100% truth man
you contradict yourself again saying that we know how our senses work while sober as well as on LSD and then go on to suggest that there is nothing testable about our senses while on LSD. you haven't addressed the fact that people are able to experience what is beyond our "sober" senses without the aid of any drugs. calling them crazy doesn't refute experience. the point i am getting at is that what people refer to as god or a mystical experience or whatever terms they choose to try and describe an experience they have had ultimately boils down to science. science just hasn't yet caught up with what humans are able to experience and so people make up terms to describe phenomena the exact same way that science does. people overlook the fact that humans are a scientific instrument used to experience reality and instead look to man made scientific instruments and raw data rather than using their own senses in combination with reality and the different experiences different interactions within reality afford.
lol what i meant is that NO human can have a valid opinion about whether or not any type of god exists, what happens when we die, why we're here, and where we came from.
I fail to see the contradiction. Hallucinations =/= reality. Claiming they are IS the contradiction. And I get tired of people pleading the science doesn't know card. Science has plenty to offer, many just don't want to listen. And yes people experiencing trips without the use of psychedelic drugs are in fact crazy, or have serious issues with their brain chemistry. Evolution made us relatively the same people, as much as we're told otherwise by the stupid - we're all special bullshit. We weren't designed to trip out randomly. edit: Maybe I'm really baked, but I'm just not getting where you're coming from.
This is honestly one of the most reasonable responses I've read on here. I've read the Bible, been to Church, etc etc, given it a whole bunch of thought ("what if this whole Believer thing is the result of some dudes getting drunk on wine several thousands of years ago, and deciding to play the greatest hoax ever known to man, resulting in the production of the Bible"). After giving it much thought, assessing my life and talking to many others, I decided to believe there is a God, and that not everything, good or bad, that happens is a coincidence based on the timeliness with which we often experience good or bad "luck", etc. I whole-heartedly agree that we live in a man-made world. I am not going to allow my thoughts or how I conduct myself to be influenced by science, or any one particular religion, as both are man made and can be manipulated for alterior motives.
^ya nice posts nobody really knows, maybe its a big secret we dont know about, but its more likely we dont know (origin of universe)
You guys are probably ignorant of modern science. We can PROVE science. If we know evolution is true, (organisms reproduce with variation) thats something we can know for sure. People who deny this are simply ignorant. We put large and unfamiliar terms on things in science but that doesn't mean its not understandable. It's provable, its been tested. Consider our species taking steps forward in understanding the strange world around us including the universe through evidence, not belief in old book with no evidence and moral standards that were obviously created by man to tame the fucking wildness of the human species by introducing eternal hell.
no, bro. im pretty all he was saying, is that he understands humans are flawed, so he will not accept things at face value simply because they're under the scope of 'science'. it's important for each individual to really analyze every belief they have, instead of being spoon-fed your opinions from ANYONE (scientists, old books, the news, your buddy). of course i could be wrong
I find it interesting that you completely disregarded the second part of my post. Some people just love to debate. Good to see someone understands where I'm coming from.
you seem to have a very limited understanding of what is possible within the realm of altered states. there are many many ways to achieve an altered state of consciousness and i don't understand how you insist that those who achieve them using dancing or drumming or breathing exercises within meditation are "crazy" as you so scientifically put it. there is nothing random about it. consider what science believes to be the beginning of the universe. a big bang. as with everything else in the universe, the big bang is governed by the laws of mathematics. whether or not the mathematics that govern the expansion of the universe was random or not, we are still subject to a massive yet subtle domino effect beginning there. as other posters have pointed out, we could simply be robots who are constantly programmed by reality itself, or, within the environment we are subject to, we may have the ability to influence the course of reality itself through our thoughts and eventually our actions. everything within reality affects everything else because it is all interconnected by the web of reality itself and every thought and action we have creates a ripple. it is all forms of energy interacting with itself in various ways. this idea is actually able to be experienced through various means where you can literally feel your place within reality and see the web of reality holding everything together and even go beyond the fabric of reality, and through this experience find direction and allow reality itself to help you get there. some people have this experience and call it a union with god. some people call it different things. science for one reason or another refuses to acknowledge the experience as anything more than craziness or hallucinations, terms that are ultimately meaningless, as they go on mentally masturbating about the idea of the big bang and string theory when there are actual experiences concerning these things to be had.
Do you believe people ever hallucinate or are crazy? Or do you believe everything they see/experience is real?