If god created everything including time then before god there existed nothing. So god would have to have been created at the exact same moment he decided to creat time as nothing could have existed before time was created as time is a measurement of events passing so who created god Sent from my GT-S5830 using GC Forum
Well it depends on what you mean by "God". different religions see God differently. If youre reffering to the conventional version of God (the Man in the Sky), people generally believe He always existed. Other people believe there was some primordial Force, something almost impossible to describe, which created God. And others simply atrribute the word "God" to the aformention Force and conclude that nothing was ever created, but simply came into Being by a series of hard-to-understand processes. There's probably a few more theories as well; these are just the ones I happen to (barely) know about.
The ones who think about the man or woman in the sky who has always existed. If he/she created everything EVER than surely he/she cant have existed always as. Sent from my GT-S5830 using GC Forum
God is the manager of this universe. Our universe is a small fractal or quark of the next universe, whoever managing that one probably hired this one.
you either believe something(god) always existed or something came from nothing. both ideas are equally silly, god always existing seems a little more plausible to me.
[quote name='"chronicchthonic"']you either believe something(god) always existed or something came from nothing. both ideas are equally silly, god always existing seems a little more plausible to me.[/quote] But its scientifically (yes I know i cant spell lol) impossible. Most of space is made up of absoulute nothingness but something must have happened to create one or two particles that reacted with each other to create more and more. Under there own gravity and immense heat they collided and exploded and that is where the universe was created from. More or less. Sent from my GT-S5830 using GC Forum
[quote name='"FuerteFarmer"'] But its scientifically (yes I know i cant spell lol) impossible. Most of space is made up of absoulute nothingness but something must have happened to create one or two particles that reacted with each other to create more and more. Under there own gravity and immense heat they collided and exploded and that is where the universe was created from. More or less. Sent from my GT-S5830 using GC Forum[/quote] I have 2 responses to your question 1. How is something always existing "scientifically" impossible? Because one of newtons laws says matter can't be created or destroyed, so god always existing is consistent with that. 2. Who/what created these two particles that collided under immense heat and pressure? Or did they always exist? If it's the former than we are back to a persona of god. And if it's the latter then your particles that always existed seem to be again equal with the silliness of god always existing, god just seems more plausible.
Scientifically impossible... Science doesn't even come in to it in this hypothetical viewpoint. I always imagined if there was a creator he was separate from our universe and created science along with the universe. I don't think science and even logic really are much useful in talking about something separate from our cosmos. Of course this is all hypothetical but to truly view it this way you can't put scientific restraints on the thing that created science.
[quote name='"chronicchthonic"'] I have 2 responses to your question 1. How is something always existing "scientifically" impossible? Because one of newtons laws says matter can't be created or destroyed, so god always existing is consistent with that. 2. Who/what created these two particles that collided under immense heat and pressure? Or did they always exist? If it's the former than we are back to a persona of god. And if it's the latter then your particles that always existed seem to be again equal with the silliness of god always existing, god just seems more plausible.[/quote] Firstly god isnt a physical being - therefore is not made of matter - therefore does not comply with newtons law at all. And why would a god create somthing as expansive as the universe and set it to work to certain rules? Secondly the big bang is a massive collection of mass that exploded from its own gravity. Sort of like a black hole that ended being a black hole. Since nothing can escape a black hole including time then whatever is before this event is irrelevent as it is impossible to measure or document. If you understand how black holes work then you would see that matter can be created from energy alone as long as it has an equal opposite with opposite energy aka antimatter. When matter and antimatter colide they anhialate each other while releasing immense amounts of energy or gravity. I think lol Sent from my GT-S5830 using GC Forum
The question is tricky because it sneaks in the false assumption that God came from somewhere and then asks where that might be. The answer is that the question does not even make sense. It is like asking, “What does blue smell like?” Blue is not in the category of things that have a smell, so the question itself is flawed. In the same way, God is not in the category of things that are created or caused. God is uncaused and uncreated—He simply exists. How do we know this? We know that from nothing, nothing comes. So, if there were ever a time when there was absolutely nothing in existence, then nothing would have ever come into existence. But things do exist. Therefore, since there could never have been absolutely nothing, something had to have always been in existence. That ever-existing thing is what we call God. God is the uncaused Being that caused everything else to come into existence. God is the uncreated Creator who created the universe and everything in it.
So you're argument is if god created time then how did he exist before time to create things if time is the measurement of things occuring. Well maybe god does and still exists within time, and created a universe with a separate time frame which is the one we are currently in. He could still be in his infinite time loop universe where he may be the only thing that exists, while we are in our own different timed universe.
[quote name='"didier12"']So you're argument is if god created time then how did he exist before time to create things if time is the measurement of things occuring. Well maybe god does and still exists within time, and created a universe with a separate time frame which is the one we are currently in. He could still be in his infinite time loop universe where he may be the only thing that exists, while we are in our own different timed universe.[/quote] Exactly!!!!! So who created god and his universe and all the things he would need to create us? Sent from my GT-S5830 using GC Forum
Why does there need to be? As I said in my first post you can't take logic and science outside of our cosmos, they are a product and the result of the cosmos they are useless outside of it. Take a hypothetical dream for example where you are levitating in the sky shooting fireballs from your hand at the people below, now imagine that scene as a different cosmos separate from ours and imagine for some reason you were transported there. The first thing you would think of is why the fuck am I levitating this isn't possible and I have the ability to conjure fire too, none of this makes any sense. Why? because it's a different place with different rules and thus has a different logic. The point being it is illogical to take logic and science outside of our universe, when we talk about hypothetical things outside of what we know it's a bold assumption to assume that they follow the exact same laws of space and time etc that we know. You get me?
[quote name='"didier12"'] Why does there need to be? As I said in my first post you can't take logic and science outside of our cosmos, they are a product and the result of the cosmos they are useless outside of it. Take a hypothetical dream for example where you are levitating in the sky shooting fireballs from your hand at the people below, now imagine that scene as a different cosmos separate from ours and imagine for some reason you were transported there. The first thing you would think of is why the fuck am I levitating this isn't possible and I have the ability to conjure fire too, none of this makes any sense. Why? because it's a different place with different rules and thus has a different logic. The point being it is illogical to take logic and science outside of our universe, when we talk about hypothetical things outside of what we know it's a bold assumption to assume that they follow the exact same laws of space and time etc that we know. You get me?[/quote] So in your hypothetical theory im living in a dream created in my mind.... The dream was created by me so I am god yeah. But I was created by god so who is the equivilant of god in your hypothetical theory? Sent from my GT-S5830 using GC Forum
Nah, you got the wrong end of the stick, probably due to my own fault of explaining it incorrectly. What I meant was for you to imagine that dream as an alternate reality as real as this one not as a dream, I shouldn't have ever labelled it as a dream tbh. But just imagine it as a reality outside this one but has the same sort of rules as a dream thus our logic wouldn't work. Gah I'm too tired for this shit right now so to try and explain it real simple in the next paragraph. Who's to say god doesn't exist in a reality of a similar nature of a dream (Let's call that reality A) where things don't follow the same rules as our reality (Reality B) which is where our logic is derived from. You would not be able to properly analyse reality A with logic from reality B as they both have different laws.