We are already at war with Iran

So we should force them with a gun to the head and expect them to trust us? (Especially considering what a wonderful job we did last time )

Did it ever occur to you that you can't achieve peace with violence?

 

^^ Fuckin right...

I was also happily suprised when he said:

"On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people -- Muslims and Christians -- have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than 60 years they've endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations -- large and small -- that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: The situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. And America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own."


I think its time we stop meddling in others affairs..

 

Obama and Iran: New Hopes, Old Dangers | CommonDreams.org

 

Carrying out covert operations pretty much defeats the purpose of diplomacy...

 

I think we are looking at a situation from two very different perspectives Aaronman. From my perspective, I do not need to obfuscate the overt anti-semitism that the Iran regime spout.

I think you forget that Iran is currently controlled by a theocrattic islamist regime. One should not try to understand such a regime from what we would call rational power politics. The theocrats have an agenda based on faith, that is, delusions of grandeour. As for the Shi'ites that control Iran, they believe the 12th Iman will come down to Teheran like a literal Jesus at the end time. They've even built an avenue as a landing strip for this occasion.

And what is the end time you may ask? Like in most religions, it's when one is cornered and then some miracle occours that sends the entire earth to hell, except the true believers naturally. How convenient.

Iran is in most regards a backwards country. Despite being a major supplier of oil, Iran have not invested much in their petro-chemical industries.

So why this interest and huge investment in nuclear and rocket technology? Any idiot can tell you there is only one reason: Getting nukes, and having a delivery system for them.

Which is just super, a gang of religious crazy's with an agenda to wipe out Israel, having nuclear weapons. If that do not spell something to worry about, better yet, something to avert, nothing do.

 

this is all staged by zionists to help fuel an inevitable wwIII that will lead to the apocalypse?

i think so..

 

You lost me there. Why would the Iranian government be against a large portion of their own people?

Unless you're confusing anti-semitism with anti-zionism... then you just need to read a dictionary.

Regardless, none of that has anything to do with American-supported terrorism. So you're okay with innocent people dying? Good to know.

I think the only backwards one here is you for thinking that a country is "crazy" just because they're religious. Behind in the times, perhaps, but what third world nation isn't? Afghanistan and Iraq are pretty "backwards" too. Maybe we should invade them? Oh wait.

 

Accualy he did withdraw lor is on a time table to withdraw troops from iraq but yes he did increase troops in afghanistan since the've been more fucked up than iraq since bush decided to ignore it.

 

^ I totally agree. Why would we be disposed to think differently? We've been subjected to talk of removal, while the military budget is increased, and setting of deadlines, while we build American military infrastructure in Iraq.

There is no evidence to support that we will ever leave.

 

Peace is the only option with Iran, a war with them would be so messy you would never believe it.


Edit

Even though were pulling out there is still going to be a residual force of 50,000. Also were beefing it up in Afghanistan.

 

First off, whilst it is true that Iran posess the largest Jewish population outside of Israel in the Middle-East, one should not glance over the fact that they live in dhimmitude as per sharia law. That means that they can not practice their belief openly, may not construct places of worship, have to pay an extra tax, and have to follow islamic law. The jews of Iran are in every sense second-rate citizens, and are entirely cut off from the rest of the jewish community, not to say the world.

Saying they live freely in Iran, is a bit like saying that the jews of the Warsaw-ghetto under WW2 was free. The intensity of the oppression is different, but it do not change the fact that they are oppressed.

Iran, or as it was known as in other times, Persia, have been a home for jews for at least 2500 years. Though hard to estimate, in pre-islamic times, the Jews of Persia was a very sizeable minority. Possibly numbering upwards of a million.

Though, after some 1400 years of oppression, by 1948, they numbered less than 100.000. At the time of the revolution that put the islamic theocrats in power, they numbered less than 80.000. Today, less than 25.000.

Islam is anti-semittic. That is a fact. Their prophet, the genocidal peadophile maniac himself, are described in the Quran performing genocide towards jewish settlements and cities he conquered. Don't believe me? Read the damn book. If you think the old-testament is horrible and dripping of blood, it reads like a childrens fairytale compared to the violence and callousness described in the Quran (Recitation of the word of Allah) and the Hadith (sayings and doings of Muhammed). You'll find english translations in most good bookstores, do read it, you will be aghast afterwards.

Need more? In 1994 and 99, their government published "The elder scrolls of Zion", a known Czarist forgery and a pamphlet the nazis found very valuable in their anti-semittic propaganda.

As for Ahmidinejad their current president "just" being anti-zionist, is nothing but a lie. He is a known anti-semite and holocaust denier. He have on several occasions referred to the holocaust as nothing but a myth, an allied ploy to facilitate a non-muslim state in what they (islamists) see as part of the Ummah, dar-al islam. House of islam (and anything not dar-al Islam, is dar-al Harb, house of war.).

In 2006, Iran even hosted a Holocaust conference. The invited speakers list, read like a virtual who's who of holocaust deniers.

The rethoric coming out of Teheran, have even promted other muslim states to distance themselves from Iran. In no short terms, the Saudies have told Ahmidinejad to shut his trap with regards to his overt holocaust denial and jew-hatred. Which he indeed have done in the last 2-3 years, in the sense that he now disguise his anti-semittism as anti-zionism, and when challenged give wolly disingenious replies that are very open to interpretation, neither denying nor affirming his statements made before being lectured by the Saudies.

Though, the Saudies had their own reason for this. Their brand of islam, sunni wahabism, is no less anti-semittic than what Ahmidinejad have spouted, but as it is, the Saudies rely on US military presence, money and weapon-supply and training to keep them in power. As such, they are more realpolitical, than ideological, at least with regards to official foreign policy.

Morocco have even expelled the entire Iranian embassy-staff, in an effort to distance themselves from the mad mullas that constitute the Iranian theocratic fascist regime.

The one and only political agenda Iran have, is to wipe Israel off the map. By proxy they already have an active war against Israel. They co-founded and continue to sponsor Hezbollah working out of Lebanon. They sponsor Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. And countless other islamic terror organizations.

When such a regime openly brag about enriching uranium to weapons-grade quality, and piles droves of money into rocket research, it is a safe bet it is not for peacefull purposes.

For one thing, at a fraction of the cost, they could secure all the electricity they want from oil or gas. But they have yet to invest in new such installations after the revolution in 1978. Infact, they've let much of their petro-chemical industry rot away by lack of maintanance.

Iran have a stated agenda, determined by religious fanatism. To wipe Israel off the map, and with it bring about the conflict that they think will enable the return of their messiah, the twelwth imam.

The Iranian theocratic regime is a bunch of criminal and crazy liars. And all they will ever bring their own people, not to mention the world, is misery, oppression, death.

If we do not act to remove that regime now, before it gets nukes, it will have to be done later. But then we have already payed a heavy prize for our folly of appeasement, and even more innocents will suffer for it.

 

No it is not a fact. In fact, you are absolutely dead wrong. Islam is also a semetic religion so to say they are anti-semetic is completely ignorant and only an attempt to bring the sentiment of the Holocaust and of Neo-nazis to the debate. Semite is a language family that includes both Hebrew and Arabic.

And I have read the Qu'ran. In fact I keep it bookmarked just so when people start misquoting it, I can pull i out.

The Holy Qur'an

Please give me an example of when they slaughter jews because as far is I know, there isn't one. In fact, the Qur'an states several times that Jews and Christians are all muslims and that all three should live in peace as long as all use the guiding words in a way that promotes peace and good-will

and

Yup, the qur'an sure does teach nothing but hate towards all those who aren't muslims

 

You are being very selective of your quotes, and are not aware of the law of abrogation in the Quran. What you are quoting is from the early-parts (chronologically, though the organization of the quran is a mess in that regard) of the Quran, the ones written whilst Muhammed was in Mecca (Mansukh verses). The later Medina parts (Nasikh verses) have replaced these tolerant passages, as any islamic scholar will tell you.

First the islamic law of abrogation:

And from the latter part (Chronological) of the quran, the replacement verses that negate the previous tolerant verses, from when Muhammed went from preacher seeking acceptance, with very little success, to warlord seeking submission, with great success:

I could go on all day quoting quranic and hadith scripture that is specifically anti-semittic and more generally predicating death on all that do not submit to islam, but I'll leave off with the islamic prophets genocide of jews after a victorious battle:

Ofcourse, seeing as the Quran and Hadith is dripping of blood lust against all non-muslims, these are just a mere few examples to show the inherent anti-semitism islam is so full of, never mind the even worse hatred against polytheists and pagans (non-believers in any god).

At least the "people of the book", that is christians and jews, are allowed to live in oppressed state under islam, receiving dhimmi status, second rate citizens to be humiliated at every opportunity. That is, submit, convert or die. Pagans and polytheists on the other hand have only two choices, convert or lose their head.

Quite the religion, huh?

(edit: I am aware that arabs are also a semittic people, but in de-jour parlance, anti-semittic is to be understood as jew-hating. So please stop arguing semantics)

 

Justification of conquest of Babylon:

The destruction of Nineveh by the israelis:

Justification of Jewish conquest of the Canaanites:

and

The conquest and enslavement of the Canaanites:

The Wars against Ethiopia:

The justification of the Destruction and enslavement of the 7 heathen nations:

More:

Like the Bible doesn't have plenty of pillage and murder? You seem to be selectively quoting too. I chose tolerant ones, and you chose intolerant ones. The same could be done with any religion and we could go on all day doing it with the Qur'an. And that's the whole point. People can selectively choose what they want from any text. Some will take the peaceful and some won't. Any solidified, organized religion is only here because of the intolerant ones. By saying you are the follower of the true god, it is much easier to convince people to mass-slaughter people for no real reasons. And to say something chronologically replaces another in the Qur'an is bullocks. It's not in chronological order and it isn't meant to be. It's in order by length.