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Totally New - Need a point in the right direction.

Discussion in 'First Time Marijuana Growers' started by Socal_herbs, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. Brand new like the title says and I could use some input.

    Aside from seeing a few grow op's over the years and hearing friends talk about them from time to time, I have never had any experience with growing bud. That said, I have been doing a lot of reading lately and I find that I have an alarming amount of questions.

    Here is what I think I want to do and why I think I want to do it, with some other random questions from time to time:

    Outdoors... I want to grow outside, at least during the flowering stage. I have read that if done right, it could double or triple the crop of a female. I also understand temperature is a huge deal during the vegetative stage, so I want to at least have that stage done in a controlled environment in my garage. I haven't been able to find many examples of growers doing this though.

    Has anyone reading grown this way before?

    Any links with appropriate information you know about?


    My next set of questions revolve around the indoor environment.

    Do I have to use a hydroponics set up or can I get away with simply watering the plants by hand?

    If I don't need a hydro set up, what should I still be using regarding temperature and RH control, fans, and otherwise?

    I believe I want to use a MH light at 6500k or 5500k, does that sound right?


    I would prefer not to transfer the plants at any point. Will using a 5 gallon fiber/mesh pot throughout the whole growth cycle negatively effect the plant?

    Has applying LST for outdoor flowering worked out well for anyone here?


    Is there a shock factor involved when moving plants from indoors to outdoors even if the plant remains in the same pot? Any links dealing with this?

    Perlite has been recommended for multiple reasons, but should I use perlite if I am going to be moving the plants outdoors, does it make a difference?

    I have more things to get on the table so to speak, but I figure that is good for now. I would like to read what people have to say before I add anything else.

    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. Here's my setup, I'm going HydroFarm all the way, but it's kinda expensive and the nute isn't forgiving. But if done right, you don't have to worry about over water and you can control the nute, and you're have a bigger and faster yield...

    Hope you like my setup...
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Has anyone reading grown this way before? -- Yes, this has been done before with great success. You will need to slowly acclimatize your plants over the course of a few weeks, placing them outside for periods of the day in order to "toughen" them up. Another thing you'll want to do is make sure there is a very strong fan blowing on them while they are indoor. This will produce a thick hearty stalk which is beneficial when moving from inside to outside.

    Any links with appropriate information you know about? -- Enh, just search here, you can find it.

    My next set of questions revolve around the indoor environment.

    Do I have to use a hydroponics set up or can I get away with simply watering the plants by hand? -- You can definitely water by hand so don't worry about method or media. Personally I'd use coco.

    If I don't need a hydro set up, what should I still be using regarding temperature and RH control, fans, and otherwise? -- Now thats kind of a lazy question really only you can decide on. Keep your temps under 88 and above 62 and as close to 75 or so as you can. Your humidity shouldn't go above 60 or below 30 with the right range around 40 to 45. Like I said above, lots of air circulation is important. You'll also need at least an exhaust fan for the light. What you need will cost between $80 and $120, look for an inline but you can settle on a blower.

    I believe I want to use a MH light at 6500k or 5500k, does that sound right?
    -- Yup, sounds about right. You may also want to supplement the other wavelengths with a few cfl bulbs.

    I would prefer not to transfer the plants at any point. Will using a 5 gallon fiber/mesh pot throughout the whole growth cycle negatively effect the plant? -- I imagine that planter will not be large enough at the end, and too large in the beginning. Personally I say start your seeds in small coco cubes, then transfer them to 2 gallon planters. After about 5 weeks then you can upgrade to the 5 gallon planter. When you move them outside for good you can either place them in the ground (which is ideal) or move them to a larger container. I'd suggest something as large as 11 gallons. The reason for upping the size of the planter is to reduce the risk of overwatering/under draining and funk. The transplanting will not stunt your growth, and the final planter will really allow your plant to take off.

    Has applying LST for outdoor flowering worked out well for anyone here?
    -- LST is good if you need to keep a plant short for a reason, but you can also bend out the branches to create an even larger bush. There are many facets to LST for you to explore if space isn't an issue.

    Is there a shock factor involved when moving plants from indoors to outdoors even if the plant remains in the same pot? Any links dealing with this? -- There will be some shock, but don't worry, what does not kill them... Seriously though, just move them outside for sun every day for 10 to 14 days, or until the leaves feel "tougher" to the touch. At this point your plant is strong enough to survive on its own. Think of it like a child, if you continue to baby it at this point you're going to eff it up in the end. Let it run on its own for a bit and just be there to feed it and what not.

    Perlite has been recommended for multiple reasons, but should I use perlite if I am going to be moving the plants outdoors, does it make a difference? -- It wouldn't really make a difference but I don't really like perlite. Seriously, I think the right thing for you is coco. I've been saying that a lot recently... it's good stuff though, and perfect for this kind of application.
     
  4. ^^ Thanks 2lazy.

    24/0 vs 18/6 during the vegetative state using a MH light?

    I plan on doing a 3 month vegetative growth and bush them out. I may try LST on one just to practice. I am using female seeds a friend gave me but we will see.
     
  5. Can you tick off some negatives to using a large pot right from the start?
     
  6. LST related:

    If I understand correctly, by appropriately using a LST technique, I can force what would be the main cola to technically always be in limbo, forcing growth in all secondary daughters to produce a main cola in the long run. I do this by always making sure the side stems are secured at a lower level.

    Is that correct?

    If I am then creating more future buds, should I be using more lighting while using LST? If so, how much more?


    My whole goal is to test run at least one LST attempt in soil indoors.

    I would like to see it bushy as hell, so would it be wise to top each daughter stem?

    How far has someone taken topping while performing LST? I read that it simply is not needed but have to ask anyway.


    Once I have taken up all the growth space for the main stem in the bucket using LST, I understand I trim the tip of the plant off.

    Do I have to immediately go 12/12 or can I attempt more topping?

    Thanks in advance...

    I would also like to point out that these questions have come from reading hours worth of these forums. I find information in pieces here and there but tend to have many questions involving specifics I may have missed.

    I mention all this because I wanted to make a point of letting users know that I am actively researching but still have questions.
     
  7. 1. Larger planters require more media, increasing the startup cost
    2. Larger planters retain more moisture

    Bottom line is that a larger planter just isn't needed and it is a major factor in the most common new grower mistake... over watering. The amount of soil reduces the breathability of the mix and it also retains a lot more water than your plant can use. This can drown your roots and create rot. You are at a much higher risk for rot if the planter is too big for the plant.

    If you do use a large planter you need to wait for the soil to go dry before watering. You might only have to water once a week when the plant is young.

    Why are you trying to avoid transplanting?
     
  8. I wouldn't say I am truly wanting to avoid it I guess, I just like knowing limitations and pros and cons.

    The moisture content makes complete sense, I am sad I couldn't come up with that on my own. The smaller the plant, the less it is taking out of the soil.

    I was hoping to go from seedling into a 5 gallon right away for the vedge stage because I hadn't been able to find anything on how someone started LST then transplanted as the plant got bigger. This is assuming you can even do that.
     
  9. LST related:

    If I understand correctly, by appropriately using a LST technique, I can force what would be the main cola to technically always be in limbo, forcing growth in all secondary daughters to produce a main cola in the long run. I do this by always making sure the side stems are secured at a lower level.

    Is that correct? -- Yes and no. There are a lot of ways to make an omelet... I'm not sure what you mean about side stems being at a lower level. All you really have to do with LST is bend the stems, any of them including the main stalk, away from the light. This will lower the canopy, but widen it also. This way you can place the light closer to the plant, offering more light to the lower branches. Training can be used to a variety of effects but what you're really doing is offering more light to the lower branches helping them grow strong like the main stem.

    If I am then creating more future buds, should I be using more lighting while using LST? If so, how much more?
    -- Who couldn't use more lighting? I say if you can provide more then why not? Won't hurt, but it isn't like you have to have it.

    My whole goal is to test run at least one LST attempt in soil indoors.

    I would like to see it bushy as hell, so would it be wise to top each daughter stem? -- I'm going out on a limb here and saying no. From what I understand about topping it take a 100% bud site and creates two 45% bud sites. This keeps the plant short without greatly affecting the yield. If you don't have to keep it short then I'd recommend against topping the plant.

    How far has someone taken topping while performing LST? I read that it simply is not needed but have to ask anyway.
    -- I'm the wrong person to ask here, sorry I can't help.

    Once I have taken up all the growth space for the main stem in the bucket using LST, I understand I trim the tip of the plant off. -- I'm pretty sure this isn't right... but the wording was a little confusing with the whole stem bucket thing. What I know of topping is that you want to do it when the plant reaches a certain age, or point in the growth cycle. Once the 5th nodes are present you top the plant. Doing it too early can greatly stunt or kill the plant. Doing it too late will be like just cutting off your main cola, those other branches would have grown buds even if you didn't chop it. I've read too many articles against topping to use it myself.

    Do I have to immediately go 12/12 or can I attempt more topping? -- There seems to be a lot of community confusion regarding flowering. You can flower whenever you want, but you're moving your plants outdoors, so you're not going to use 12/12... pretty much ever. Just set it to 18/6 and let it be until you don't have to use them any more.

    Oh... and on that subject I suggest 18/6 lighting. Plants do need rest and the 18/6 should make the transfer to outdoors a little smoother.
     

  10. My wording is off. I had read that by lowering what the plant is showing as the main cola, it causes the plant to push the other side stems to produce a new one. Basically tricking the plant into boosting the sides. Naturally, the main cola gets more love from the plant and decreases the growth speed/production of other stems.

    That is how I took it anyway. Hopefully it makes sense. Either way, what you said made sense.

    Yes, I should said that differently too. Direwolf had mentioned that once the main stem had been trained in a circle around the rim of the pot, you trim what would be the very tip off the plant. Basically the portion that would keep growing over itself having completed 360 degrees of growth.

    The LST plant I want to keep indoors. The box I use for vedge state I will use for flowering the one plant, I think.
     
  11. Now that I think about it, would I have to partition the grow box for both 18/6 for the plants I want to put outside and 24/0 for the one I want to keep inside. Or would you recommend 18/6 for the indoor one as well?
     
  12. DWC, the easiest way I have found. I was able to locate black buckets which saved on the taping job.

    I start out in the same set up with a 3" net pot but smaller container until they have long roots then just relocate the 3" pot to the 5 gallon bucket. Good luck.


    DIY Standalone DWC Bucket
     
  13. ya you should use 18/6 for the plant your keeping indoors
     
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