Thoughts about China VS. US trade debate

Discussion in 'Politics' started by morefreedom, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. #1 morefreedom, Jan 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2013
    China and the United States are both intimately connected. Essentially, the United States is the consumer nation for China's massive production economy. China is a low wage country so its oligarchical class gets the fruits of the production of consumer goods shipped to the United States. Look at this article as an example Apple: Poor working conditions inside the Chinese factories making iPads | Mail Online. Workers in Southern china are killing themselves over conditions which far exceed Marxist notions of exploitation and abuse. China is not a growing economy but rather an exploitative workhouse for the consumption of the Western world.

    As China deals with inequality and abuse, the United States is slowing being turned into a third world nation. We are yet again engaging in the same financial games we played before the crash. The Federal Reserve continues its endless monetization of debt and fiscal stimulus of the economy through QE. The national debt is past $16 trillion. All the while, a culture of illusions and mindless entertainment preoccupy our intellectual lives and divert us from the moral, social, and financial collapse occurring around us.

    The only winners here are the oligarchy. When the implications of peak oil come to fruition and the national economy ponzi scheme of fiat money collapses under the weight of its illusions, the game will be up. The only logical course of action here is economic and societal collapse and reset into a more sustainable system. Quit worrying about nonsense things like what Obama said or how he said it. Real change, the likes which Ron Paul talks about, is inevitable regardless of what happens in the political realm.

    Global risk management firms are preparing for the civilization shifting changes that await the political landscape. You should to.
  2. Well the only reason that China has any interest in keeping the US economy afloat is because we are the ones buying all their shit. They have a booming industrial economy but without the US they don't have people to sell it too. Doesn't sound like a good recipe to me.
  3. Exactly. The entire world is on the verge of collapse with its infinite expansion paradigm of fractional reserve banking based fiat money being in severe contradiction with the reality of declining oil resources and destruction of natural resources which support expansion.

    We're all headed for collapse. This nonsense that the United States is in trouble and China is going to take over is some bullshit.

    Fiat money is in severe contradiction with reality
  4. The US is in far more trouble than China. It's not even comparable. China's fundamentals are relatively sound compared to the utter basket case of the US.
  5. I used to subscribe to the Peter Schiff pure Libertarian view as well. However, the world is more complicated than this.

    China is not fine. If we go under then its production based economy will self-destruct. Not to mention if we go under, we will take many nations with us because of our economic entanglements. For example, the derivatives market is over $1200 trillion dollars, about 20 times bigger than the world economy. The United States going under would be more than enough to pop that oversized mess, thus collapsing the global economy.

    Top Derivatives Expert Estimates Size of the Global Derivatives Market at $1,200 Trillion Dollars

  6. Derivative liabilities will only affect those who have them, not everyone. Also for everyone who loses on derivatives there's the opposite side of the trade where someone wins. There's nothing "more complicated" about your stance compared to any other, so I'm not sure what you meant by that.
  7. Let me be more clear. We live in a time now that is rapidly evolving as a product of systems advancements and technology. The mythologies of the past such as infinite growth and unfettered capitalism ruling for the rest of human history, may or may not apply.

    We cannot prescribe to a singular ideology and shut out all ulterior thought. This is dangerous and immature. We must use our ever expanding knowledge of science and human nature to adapt to the changing economic climate in a reasonable way.

    Austrian, Keynesian, Communist, Socialist, and Capitalist ideologies and beliefs were structured in a time vastly different from ours today. To attempt to reconcile our current reality with these outdated systems will prove to be disastrous. Our natural resources are dwindling and peak oil is becoming reality. None of these ideologies of the past offer real solutions to our problems. We have to forge our own path

  8. Austrian economics has constantly evolved as time goes on. It is fully modern and up to date. It's always in constant flux to adapt to the changes of time. So to dismiss any economic school based on when it was founded is fallacious.
  9. I'm not dismissing or attacking anything. I'm saying people in general need a new way of observing and thinking about the world given our stark new reality. We stand on the brink of one of the darkest times in human history. Dwindling natural resources, including fossil fuel, will combine with a collapsing "ponzi-scheme" fiat currency based economy to potentially produce unimaginable hardship.

    We need a revolution in our thinking which transcends narrow answers and ideologies. Austrian economics has produced many good ideas and I support many ideas in that economic school. It alone won't save us from our predicament though.
  10. We are buying it without their money though so jokes on them

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