wow, the poll is pretty close.. its like 55 and 45 . thats a hell of a lot closer than i thought it would be. Have any of yall ever thought it was weird that most of athiests have done drugs while most christians havent?
I believe that there is some sort of greater being, some power beyond the grasp of human thought. But I don't believe in organized religion. I think that the first religion was created by some dude looking to assert his dominence over the fickle masses, or perhaps by some visionary who saw all the unthinking people out there, raping, stealing, and killing and decided that they needed some sort of a guideline by which to live their lives. And of course, they used eternal damnation to insure that people followed it. Anyways, the Bible has been altered innumerable times throughout history, by the catholic church and other forces that saw things in it that they didn't agree with or couldn't fathom. Revelations is a bunch of bullshit, not true visions, a way of insuring continued belief in the church. It's just like Nostradamus (I probably spelled his name wrong, but I'm not a believer and don't really give a damn), a bunch of tales that can be interpreted to mean anything. Religion is great, a good guideline for living your life with respect for the common good, but it offers no sort of incontrovertable evidence as to its truth. I went to a christian school grades 6-8 and a catholic high-school, but all that Bible jive they tried sticking on me stunk of propaganda, a way of making sure that they continued to get contributions from me after I graduated. Any religion that threatens eternal damnation for not believing, simply because of lack of evidence, is obviously wrong. If there is a sentient God out there, one who affects the everyday life of people, It could find no falt in people for failing to believe the teachings of hypocritical preachers. Maybe these thoughts make no sense, but they are my beliefs and I find them to be enough for me.
You're right!!!! people are religious because that's the way people are supposed to be (I don't mean everyone but the majority I know), they go to church and praise the lord without thinking about it too much, It's like you'd go to a shop and bought the standard religion set for 2. I mean sure you can believe anything you want but at least you could think these things and question the authorities that tell you the "truth".
im not voting, there is no option for "cannot prove either way" which is what i believe. it is impossible to say any.
I have to say I belive in god...I mean..it goes against a lot..but just gotta have faith. Im not even ton o religous, but eh.
well if religions help people in life they can't be all bad, but religion and spiritual stuff should be kept out of such worldy issues like politics and war.
Religion is the most divicive force in our world. Has been since the dawn of civilization. Something about Martyrism inspires the youth to go out and fight to the death with those who haveopposing beliefs.
I voted no. There is no conscious God. There is only science. I view religion as an extremely primitive science. There are always new discoveries that will make religion more and more obsolete. Religion gives people assurance about things which are unexplainable by the current level of technology. Religion has been wrong so many times, but people refuse to see the truth because they are afraid. I will not deny the possibility of devine beings, I just don't believe there are any. Science is the only true religion, and it is changing everyday.
I'd have to disagree with you, Dying... While I am in now ways a Christian, I will not deny the existence of divine beings. I've felt their presence. I am pagan, personally, which a lot of our beliefs DON'T put us above the other living creatures on the earth. Everything has a soul, everything has energy. It's not unlikely that their are beings of pure energy that we cannot see... They are right now beginning to discover a substance dubbed "Dark Matter" in space. This is a type of substance that absorbs all light, and therefore is invisible... Who is to say that there are not beings made of pure darkmatter with a tremendous amount of energy out there? We wouldn't be able to see these beings. So believe your science, it is proving the existence of divine beings as we speak.
Do you really believe that there are "divine" beings out ther made of dark matter, or are you just making stuff up to fill the holes in your knowlege? I ask that because it seems like such a stretch. You want to believe that there is some sort of "god" out there so you created this fantastical idea. Alright, so maybe there are dark matter beings out there. You can go ahead and worship them as gods. As for me, I'll just study them as another form of life. Your argument is based on the belief that just because you cannot see something It is divine. I have this magical box where I press buttons and it does fantastical things. I've seen people inside it! I don't know how it works so god must have made it. Whenever I fall, I go towards the ground. I don't know why. It must be because a god pushes me there so I don't fall off the earth. Good thing I made those sacrifices the other day. Eventually, this idea of yours will seem as ignorant as the above two. As I said before, the more advanced our science gets, the more obsolete religion is. Don't be afraid of the truth. Science is real. It is the truth. Blind faith is for the blind. "The Grudge" by Tool Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity. Calculate what we will or will not tolerate. Desperate to control all and everything. Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen. Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down. Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end. Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down. Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell. Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again. Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down. Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end. Saturn ascends, comes round again. Saturn ascends, the one, the ten. Ignorant to the damage done. Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity. Calculate what we will or will not tolerate. Desperate to control all and everything. Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen. Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper. Defining, confining, controlling, and we're sinking deeper. Saturn comes back around to show you everything Let's you choose what you will not see and then Drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again Spits you out like a child, light and innocent. Saturn comes back around. Lifts you up like a child or Drags you down like a stone To consume you till you choose to let this go. Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor. Give away the stone. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold. Let go.
Namecalling? Who me? Yeah, I'll admit I'm ignorant. But then again, aren't we all? Sorry about the sarcasm. I guess I'm just bitter for the years of my life where I believed everything simply because I was told it. I'll try to summarize my beliefs without namecalling. To me, the word god is defined as the following: A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions. -or- A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality. I am a freshman physics major. I believe that the only thing that rules the universe are the laws of physics. I don't believe in the supernatural, only the natural. While it is possible that there are beings made of pure energy or dark matter, I would not call them gods. They are just another form of life. As for religion . . . It's not my thing. I think it was Marx who said "religion is the opiate of the masses." To me religion is just something that helps people deal with the fact that we are alive. People turn to religion for comfort. Me? I turn to music, art, and drugs for comfort. To each his own right? Uh, ok, i'm done rambling. Peace.
I only said something b/c me and DarkMatter are very good friends in real life....I'm just backing him up....
I have had my fair share of encounters with Christians. I was raised a Catholic until I was old enough to realize that I had a mind, and I could use this mind to reason, and through simple reason I was able to discover that there is no PROOF that God does or does not exist. It may very well never be proven. If someone were to ask me if I believed there was a God I would simply say no. This is because, in my opinion, a God should be a being of supreme goodness and peace and love, and the God depicted in Christianity is far from this. Over and over again, the bible refers to God "punishing" mankind, though God speaks of forgiveness and "turning the other cheek". God speaks of punishments for sinners that are at a level of cruelty that I can imagine. Sure, the new and improved "New Testemant" is kinder and gentler (funny how the bible becomes nicer and nicer as our world becomes more evolved and shuns brutality and evil). I have heard that some Christians believe that the old testemant should not be taken literally (I couldn't believe this when I was told this because I thought the bible was supposed to be THE BOOK to follow). Others believe that since Jesus died for sinners, we no longer have to excercise the practices of the old testemant. Well, I myself have morals and I view them to be much more reasonable and peaceful than many of the bible's implied morals. I will write out some verses here... bear with me. Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. Leviticus 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire. Leviticus 25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Those are just three of the HUNDREDS of disgusting practices spoken of in the bible. THIS is why I do not believe in the Christian God. I could never have faith in, nor feel love for a God that thought it right to kill a person who works on a Sunday, to burn alive the daughter of a priest because she was a slut, or to make slaves of pagan people from foreign countries. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING AND UNACCEPTABLE. It pisses me off everytime I read such verse to know that it has been practiced in history and so many innocent people have been robbed of their LIVES in the name of such a God. To those people who practice Christianity in moderns ways, I have no problem with you. Just don't preach to me. I have my ways, you have yours. Only speak to me about religion if you can PROVE that your "God" exists. Now I have to go listen to Judith by A Perfect Circle. Thank you for your time.
You're such an inspiration for the ways That I'll never ever choose to be Oh so many ways for me to show you How the savior has abandoned you Fuck your God Your Lord and your Christ He did this Took all you had and Left you this way Still you pray, you never stray Never taste of the fruit You never thought to question why It's not like you killed someone It's not like you drove a hateful spear into his side Praise the one who left you Broken down and paralyzed He did it all for you He did it all for you Oh so many many ways for me to show you How your dogma has abandoned you Pray to your Christ, to your god Never taste of the fruit Never stray, never break Never---choke on a lie Even though he's the one who did this to you You never thought to question why Not like you killed someone It's Not like you drove a spiteful spear into his side Talk to Jesus Christ As if he knows the reasons why He did it all for you Did it all for you He did it all for you ------------------------ What a great song.
wonderfull song indeed. perfect circle, tool and soad got some great lyrics regarding faith... here is a few passages refuting religious arguments: ----------------------------------------------------------- "Where did it all come from? How can you explain the complex order of the universe? I can't believe the beauty of nature just happened by accident. Design requires a designer." This argument merely assumes what it wishes to prove. Any attempt to "explain" anything requires a higher context within which it can be understood. To ask for the explanation of the "natural universe" is simply to demand a "higher universe." The universe is "all there is." It is not a thing. A god would certainly be a part of "all there is," and if the universe requires an explanation, then god requires a god, ad infinitum. The mind of a god would be at least as complex and orderly as the rest of nature and would be subject to the same question: Who made god? If a god can be thought eternal, then so can the universe. There is design in the universe, but to speak of design of the universe is just theistic semantics. The perceived design in nature is not necessarily intelligent. Life is the result of the mindless "design" of natural selection. Order in the cosmos comes from the "design" of natural regularity. There is no need for a higher explanation. The design argument is based on ignorance, not facts. Failure to solve a natural riddle does not mean there is no answer. For millennia humans have created mythical answers to "mysteries" such as thunder and fertility. But the more we learn, the fewer gods we need. God belief is just answering a mystery with a mystery, and therefore answers nothing. -------------------------------------------------------------- "Millions of people personally know God through an inner spiritual experience." Most theists claim their particular god can be known through meditation or prayer, but such experiences point to nothing outside the mind. Mysticism can be explained psychologically; it is not necessary to complicate our understanding of the universe with fanciful assumptions. We do know that many humans habitually invent myths, hear voices, hallucinate and talk with imaginary friends. We do not know there is a god. There are millions of god-believers; but this is a statement about humanity, not about god. Truth is not something which is attained by vote. Religions arose to deal with death, weakness, dreams, and fear of the unknown. They are powerful mechanisms for giving meaning to life and personal/cultural identity. But religions differ radically, and appeals to inner experience only worsen the conflict. --------------------------------------------------------------- "Everything had a cause, and every cause is the effect of a previous cause. Something must have started it all. God is the first cause, the unmoved mover, the creator and sustainer of the universe." The major premise of this argument, "everything had a cause," is contradicted by the conclusion that "God did not have a cause." You can't have it both ways. If everything had to have a cause, then there could not be a first cause. If it is possible to think of a god as uncaused, then it is possible to think the same of the universe. Some theists, observing that all "effects" need a cause, assert that god is a cause but not an effect. But no one has ever observed an uncaused cause and simply inventing one merely assumes what the argument wishes to prove. ------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Bible is historically reliable. There is no reason to doubt the trustworthy testimonies that would hold up in court. God exists because He has revealed Himself through scriptures." The bible reflects the culture of its time. Though much of its setting is historical, much is not. For example, there is no contemporary support for the Jesus story outside the Gospels, which were anonymously written thirty to eighty years after the supposed crucifixion (depending on which scholar you consult). Many accounts, like the creation stories, conflict with science. The stories of the bible are just that: stories. The bible is contradictory. A glaring example is the discrepancy between the genealogies of Jesus given by Matthew and Luke. The story of the resurrection of Jesus, told by at least five different writers, is hopelessly irreconcilable. Scholars have noted hundreds of biblical errors which have not been satisfactorily addressed by apologists. The bible, like other religious writings, can be accounted for in purely natural terms. There is no reason to demand it be either entirely true or false. Christianity is filled with parallels from pagan myths, and its emergence as a second century messiah cult stems from its Jewish sectarian origins. The Gospel authors admit they are writing religious propaganda (John 20:31) which is a clue that it should be taken with a grain of salt. Thomas Paine, in The Age Of Reason, pointed out that scripture cannot be revelation. Revelation (if it exists) is a divine message communicated directly to some person. As soon as that person reports it, it becomes second-hand hearsay. No one is obliged to believe it, especially if it is fantastic. It is much more likely that reports of the miraculous are due to honest error, deceit or zealous theological interpretations of perfectly natural events. Outrageous claims require outrageous proof. A criterion of critical history is the assumption of natural regularity over time. This precludes miracles, which by definition "override" natural law. If we allow for miracles, then all documents, including the bible, become worthless as history. ---------------------------------------------------------------- phew, did anyone read all that? i gotta toke up