Theory on Origins of America (sorry, complicated theory)

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by -E-, Apr 8, 2006.

  1. I have made many interesting theories in my brain whilst stoned and to be honest i just wish i could remember more, i have some others i may share later.

    Before i start i would just like to point out i am born n raised in east london.

    Now, we all know America is really one of the most extreme countries in the world, whether its in terms of its sports (NFL, NBA, MLB) its amazingly huge companies and corporations (Microsoft, McDonalds) or its other 'extremes' of which im sure you can think of some yourself, maybe just the sheer scale and size of most of Americas cities, the kind of muscle cars and extreme weapons they;ve created and other things. It's also had a pretty extreme history, and i believe this is where Americas modern day 'screw the world, we are the best' mentality has come from ( not saying it is a negative mentality).

    The pilgrims who moved away from the British Isles and Ireland and various other countries to come and first settle in USA did so because they were rebels, they were rebels against the governments of their various native countries. They hated the government, but rather than fighting, they stuck up the middle finger and sailed away to make their own land. Americas business economy is extreme capitalism with 'every man or company for themselves' this is reflected in how the first settlers to live in america would have very obviously had to defend themselves and families against the various dangers in their new lives and really kept anything they could find.

    Also, they were most likely energetic young people who had the courage and strength to defy their home countries and move away to live as real renegades out for themselves, i believe this extreme mind-set shared by the very first settlers in America has still managed to find its way into USA's modern culture of extremism and general disregard for all save America.

    Also, American governments and people are very good at using other's resources for their own benefit (iraq war for oil, africa for slavery etc.) This is also reflected in their past behaviour where the first settlers had to make use of any resource they found to truly become the prosperous nation the USA is now

    This is in no way putting down america, please dont take any offence if you are american, its simply a theory, see if u can apply it to any of your findings or personal beliefs. Thanks for reading.
     
  2. Good theory. I'm canadian but I think America kicks ass. Of course, I dislike american arrogance, but despite all its governments faults, I'm happy that it's the main super-power in the world and not Russia or China or something. Although they approach tyrannical attitudes at times, I think all americans value freedom at heart.
     
  3. I think America really peaked during the 70's, and started to fall with teh 80's. We always seemed to have had some bad characteristics at heart. Slavery, marijuana laws, racism, the gilded age ).. Just some crappy things underneath the real meaning of things.

    I think a lot of it had to do with technology, and how we seemed to almost pioneer in everything that was important in history, and if we didn't, we soon learned to dominate it (airplanes, space, nukes, etc). We always had the cutting edge, and our grandparents reminded us of that, which is why we have some of the worlds most patriotic/nationalist people.

    Thing is, since the beginning we had a black spot on us, and its done nothing but get bigger. WE're smug, stubborn, quick to anger, quick to hate, quick to blame, enjoy blaming ,etc etc. And when I say we, I mean it as we as a collective.

    Obviously the we doesnt include most of GC, ebcuase we are marijuana users and are the most novel of all groups america can be classified into.
     
  4. I like what you said about the marijuana users here. The thing is, i almost guarantee that no matter what race, religion or backround, anyone is welcome to sit down and join in with the joint passing lol, its just one thing ive liked about most weed users such as myself and others here , no matter who u r, ure welcome to join in.
     
  5. I had this conversation with my buddy yesterday, and im not sure if it relates to what you were saying completely, but i wanna say this. Communism - we take what we need, you take what you need...thats what communism seems to be. Now then, thnk of hitler. He said, give me your bodies for fighting this war, and i will rid you of your poorness. And I think that america is a communist country thats descised as a democracy. When a country says you have the right to vote for whoever you want...its bullshit because...they only give you two people to vote for..and all the other guys..they dont count..because they cant get enough votes anyways. They pick and choose who goes into office and when. They take money from our checks every week to pay for a war that half of the country doesnt even want to be in. AND, the patriot act. Read the fuckin patriot act. You will see just how much control the government has over your lives. This country is a good country to live in, if you can sepperate yourself from all the bullshit, if your life doesnt feed off of big business and the image that america has portraid on us, whihc is, work and get a house and a garage and kids and a car..because..thats what your supposed to do. Get married, be managomous...because.......just because. Theres no reason to get married and have children and get a house and a car and a garage..i mean, what for????!!!! Why do we as a world keep getting stuck in the influence?

    Seriously, if anybody can answer this question. What point does getting married and having children and getting a house and a high paying job serve?

    and im gunna take away an answer that i could see popping up. "Security". i have read a lot of peoples posts on this forum that say " I just dont know where im going, or what im doing in life." people who say this are on the right track. Everything that the middle class person works for, is all just imaginary. Everyone conforms into this, school, then college, then debt, then getting a job, then more debt, and more debt..and cancelled credit cards, and not getting a home because of bad rental history, and not getting a car because of bad credit or no credit because..theres nothing else. Well I think there is something else.

    All in all, from what I see, is people working and working and working so that they can get a house and kids, and make their kids work and work and work, so that they can get a house and some kids, and then they can work and work and work...just so the new ipod comes out. Or just so we can all drive down the street. Lets start a war in a country, over a fluid that allows me to drive down the street.

    LETS START A WAR OVER FUEL, SOMETHING THAT LETS ME DRIVE DOWN THE STREET. WHEN IN REALITY, WE DONT EVEN NEED THE GODDAMN GAS TO DRIVE CARS. theres other methods of travel, i.e - water, or soy beans...ive read of a car , a stable car , that could go 0-60 in four seconds..and it was ran off of soy beans. WHY the FUCK cant ford make a car that runs off soy beans??? because then our war is pointless, and all the high class business guys dont have a job. And if they dont have a job, they cant get a nice home and a wife and some kids, so that they're kids can take over the company that they started...so that they can get a home and some kids. its all fuckin bullshit. smoke weed, think about this stuff...and do NOT conform to what everyone else tells you to do. find out what sign you are ( astrology) im scorpio, and let me tell you.....according to what month you were born in, tells a lot about a person. If you know any cancer, are they the type to suck off of people, or be a leach to people, always borrowing money rather than earning it??? do you know a scorpio? is that person really aggressive in his thoughts? can they be really really uncomfertable easy?

    find out who you are, and do not be afraid to live your life the way you want to.... nobody knows whats gunna happen when you die. For all we know, there is just as good of a chance of your life just turning off, like a computer when you die, as there is you going to heaven. its all made up, its all a assumption..live your life the way you want to, not the way your country wants you to.
     
  6. Reproduction, and its a pretty important one at that. One of the only "meanings" to life that is abundantly clear is the survival of your genetic traits and bloodline. Getting married, owning a home, and having a good job are just ways of facilitating reproduction. Imagine being a single-parent, and being forced to raise your offspring in a shitty apartment with an $8/hr job. Sounds fun eh?

    Um, excuse me? What type of fuel do over 99% of todays automobiles run with? That's right gasoline. By the way, gas isn't the only product that is made with petroleum-based substances. The fluid in the lighter you're using to blaze your bowl right now comes from petroleum. The silicone in the chips inside of your PC come from petroleum. The lubricant used to ensure the smooth operation of the machinery inside your home likely comes from petroleum. So as have I made perfectly clear, oil is pretty FUCKING important to mankind right now at this moment in time.

    Please, observe the demand for soybeans in the Global market. Now compare that with the demand for petroleum-based combustible fuel. It would be a pretty dumbass move by Ford to create a vehicle that runs off soy even as beneficial as it would be to the environment. How many "Soy-stations" do you see on the side of the road? How much work actually goes into refining soy so that it becomes an efficient fuel? Its not a simple as asking "I saw a car once that ran off soy, why cant they create more of them?'

    Oh and about the 2nd Gulf War, you're(as well as MANY Americans opposed to the war) being very self-centered in your thoughts on the war. Any sensible American would realize that the U.S. is the last super-power on Earth, and that we alone possess the economic, military, and moral pre-requisites to help bring democracy to place like Iraq. You're forgetting about some people here, about 22 million of them, they go by the title of Iraqis, and they were suffering under one of the most oppressive and brutal regimes in history. Now, as a result of Operation: Iraqi Freedom, these people are no longer under the control of the Baath Party regime headed by Saddam.

    Some of you may argue that they just went from an oppressive dictatorship to a civil war, a rationale used by many anti-war activists. This is not true, civil war is the total collapse of all(national, ethnic, and tribal) forms of government in a nation. As you should be able to infer, this has not happend yet. Freedom doesn't come free. Any American in tune with thier country's history should know that our own Revolution wasn't exactly a smooth process either.

    Others argue that we have lost too many troops to this war. Look, as sad as it is to watch an Honor Guard of Marines perform a gun-salute while Taps is playing, you MUST recognize the sacrifice these men and women have made for us and the Iraqis. Leaving before the country is ready to be self-reliant is basically disregarding thier sacrifices, making them worthless. Please, do not take your freedoms and the sacrifices those who serve to defend them have made for granted. You have no idea how disheartend I become whenever I see examples of it. It really gets to me how ignorant so much of our country can be towards the rest of the world.


    Upon reading this segment of your post, I started to think... Did I waste alot of time just now formulating a response? With your logic I would assume most of what I typed went in both eyes and out your ass.
     
  7. You know what. I had this long arguement written out for you, but then you started running your mouth off about the war, and i wanna say this.

    well, ask this. How come Bush and the administration, are so intent on helping iraq? Isnt it weird that a country goes after afganistan because of a catastrophy in america. We go after afganistan then go... " Eh, fuck afganistan, lets go after iraq " Have we forgotten the main reason why we went over there in the first place? And to top it off, we really didnt have ANY reason to go over to the middle east anyways. There is not enough evidence to say that bin laden actually bombed the towers.

    Im sure the things im saying are going in your eyes and right out your ass as well. I actuallylisten to what you have to say, and i do understand what your saying . However, i just dissagree with you.

    There are plenty of countries that are in just as bad of a shape as iraq is/was...and ran by a fuckface like saddam....but we dont care about them. "Ohh the poor iraqis", they were FINE before we came. Not as fine as a free country, but they had food. They had education. There was law...order. Now its just a bunch of pissed off iraqis at us, or a bunch of iraqis who love us. Either way, what they are doing to this "one" country is rediculous. There are other countries on this planet that could use a lot more looking after. Why cant we go help the starving people in ethiopia? How come the U.s can spend millions and millions and millions into billions and billions on a war that was not even intended on (again, talking about how we went to afganistan, and then decided to just take a right and go into iraq for no reason. And hey, how come it takes 2 weeks to find the most scary guy in the middle east, but 5 years later, bin laden is still hiding in a cave. Hes been hiding in a cave for a pretty fuckin long time. I could get into that more...but ill keep it simple and say that, i think bin laden has aid from america right now.)

    back to the subject at hand. Why can we spend millions and millions and billions on iraq, but we cant spend a handfull of millions on a starving country in africa. Why? Because those countrys...we cant bennifit off of them. Its all about the money man. EVERYTHING is about the money. This war is about the money. 9/11 was about the money. this forum is about the fucking money for christs sake...th3e moderators dont make shit, but the creator is makin cash. everything. and i dont expect you to have anything smart to say, so you dont have to reply, because im not even going to come back and look at what you said.

    And heres my reason for that. Because no matter what i say or what you say, were not going to be like " Hey hes got a good point, im on his side now ", so we might as well stop trying to be internet identities persueing peoples thoughts.

    sorry if i spelled things wrong, i type kinda fast when im thinking fast and i dont pay that much attention. peace out.
     
  8. Um, excuse me sir, but you're making it seem as though I pulled the topic of "Iraq" outta my ass. Please reread some of your previous post.

    This section of your post is obviously about Iraq dude. This is what I started "running my mouth(fingers) off" about.

    Do you remember 1993? The WTC was bombed then too, by Ramsey Yousef, a conspiritor of Al Qaeda. He was caught and subsequently interrogated where he had said something along the lines of, "If I had more money and time I would have brought them down." Well, it was 8 years between the 93' bombing and 9/11, plenty of time for AQ to get thier shit together. I would elaborate but I feel that this is enough for now.

    BTW, there is an international coalition of troops in Afghanistan right now, its not as though we just said "fuck it" as far as Afghanistan goes. And as far as justification for invading Afghanistan, the Taliban was the leading form of govt. in Afghanistan at the time. They were providing sactuary for Al-Qaeda in thier country(Afghanistan) as well as allowing them to use their land for the creation and use of training facilities. There was plenty of good reasons for invading A-stan with the previously mentioned one being the biggest.

    And vice-versa. The whole "in your eyes, out your ass" quip was a joke based on my beliefs of astrology and the whole "Date of birth and sign" bullshit. Don't take it seriously it was meant as a joke. I am fully digesting what point you're trying to get across, and, as a result of my opposite viewpoints, have passionately and intelligently provided a reasonable arguement.

    If you call being gassed, tortured, and in a state of constant fear for your life "fine", then by those standards the Jews living in Nazi Germany during the reign of Hitler had it relatively easy too.

    And America has tried to help out other countries in Africa. Once again, in 93 we launched Operation: Restore Hope, which was intended to help ease the suffering of the people of Somalia, who were being racked by artifically-induced famine at the hands of tribal warlords and most noteably, Mohammed Farrah Aidid. There was a pretty popular motion picture which summed it up very well, "Black Hawk Down", I believe it was called. Sadly though, Clinton didn't have the balls to stay in country long enough to make any real difference in thier way of life. The situation in Africa is MUCH more complicated than just sending food over there, and I don't feel like elaborating on that concept anymore than I already have.

    Please look carefully at the positioning of Iraq and its political boundries. Im sure you've heard of the phrase "The Central Front in the War on Terror"? Look at two of the countries which countries border Iraq, Syria and Iran. Both of these countries have continually supported and provided funding, weapons, and material to many many known terrorist groups such as "Hamas", "Hizballah", "Al-Qaeda", and "The Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade" just to name a few. These terrorist groups have vowed to carry on the Jihad against the Americans they see as invading thier "Holy Land". These people have vowed to carry on the fight all the way to America's shores. We are right up in their fucking faces by being in Iraq, we are fighting them over there, so we don't have to have another 9/11 on American soil again.

    Of course it is, why the fuck would we want to pour billions into a country that doesnt have the ability to pay us back. As divine of a move as it would be to help out a P.O.S. country, it would be a waste of resources that could never be replaced. And im not gonna comment on your view of the mods.

    I dont think this forum is about the money dude, its about online communication, between stoners across the world. Pretty simple if you didn't have those "conspiracy" blinders on your eyes. You sound like a nutcase conspiray theorist in my point of view.


    Well fuck you too cuntsock. Now shut the fuck up and keep believing Bush was behind 9-11 and that we didn't land on the moon.

    I didn't reply to try and persuade you to accept my style of thought and logic. I replied because I believe everything that you have shown me about how you feel is bullshit. Im sorry if you don't like it or if you cant come up with a more intellegent response than, "I dont expect anything smart outta you because I dont care about what you have to say", but I stand up for what I believe in.

    I do believe this is probobly the only thing I can agree with you on.
     
  9. Its not that im a conspiracy theory guy, i just believe that he was behind it. And I certainly dont have all the info on the tip of my toungue, but ive seen it and i can say, theres more evidence showing that 9/11 did not happen the way they said it did, then evidence proving they are right. Thats all about that.

    And just to comment on your reply to the whole " why put billions of dollars into a country that cant pay you back? " Thats like saying, " Why bring food down to the food shelter if these people wont feed us back " ... your basically proving my point about this country being completely revolved around making money...greed. and greed is a sin right? so this countrys main motivation is a sin?
     

  10. I didnt read anything past the 1st post, and this. Theres alot of cites disproving the 9/11 Cons. theories, so you can look them up if you want. America has done a shiton to help the rest of the world out, and capitilism is a part of that. If we didnt have the technology and resources that were made out of competition, the US wouldnt be a world leader, unfortunately, thats also a downfall. People want more and more of evertyhing, as its getting easier to get a hold of. Its shitting on the environment.

    And greed is sin to any christian...
     
  11. You don't get it do you? Bringing food to a food shelter and providing Billions of dollars worth of aid to a country that will most likely squander it are two VERY different things on enormously different scales.

    When you bring food to a food shelter its usually because you have a surplus amount that you can give away. You dont expect anything in return unless you're a complete asshole. When you give financial aid to an entire country, its because that country, in some way, shape, or form, can provide some sort of mutual benefit once the aid has taken effect. What the fuck do you expect Etheopia to provide for the United States in the event that we send financial aid to them? Slavery was abolished after the Civil War....(joke)
     
  12. civil war
    n.
    1. A war between factions or regions of the same country.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=civil+war

    Face it, Iraq is in a civil war, shiites are fighting or "warring" with sunnis over control of Iraq, and they both fight the Americans. I dont see how we are in anybodies face, American troops are dying at a constant rate, no matter how many times bush and co. promise that the "insurgency" is almost over. Iraq is F-U-C-K'd, i dont even think they went there for oil, because they havent even been able to get production of oil up to pre-war levels. I'm not a fan of saddam either, but there was clearly little or no planning for actually stabalizing and running a country, and as a result, thousands of Americans have died, some tortured or beheaded, and thousands more who lost limbs or worse not to mention nearly 40,000 [http://www.iraqbodycount.net/] dead iraqi civilians.

    Yes, Iraq is the central front in The War on Terror (tm) but it is also a breeding ground for terrorists, all those terrorist groups that want to destroy the western world have an easy job recruiting pissed off arabs with nothing to live for because there house was bombed or their family was shot at a check point. Think for a second, how pissed off would u have to be to suicide bomb some place. And with the rate we are pissing them off, and the support that Al'Qaeda and others receive, I wont be surprised when a suicide bomber(s) find their way into the states,

    read this article
    http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/12/perry.btsc.baghdad/index.html
    and tell me you're still optimistic about Iraq
    :rolleyes:

    its called humanitarianism, some people AREN'T douchebags and dont enjoy watching starving children die, the American economy is worth hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars, we can afford to give a few billion every now and then. I mean fuck, ted turner gave the U.N. 1 billion dollars and the gov't doesnt even pay dues...

    edit: turns out the US economy is worth 13 trillion
     
  13. fist off guys, when you talk about the war, PLEASE dont say that this is AMERICAS WAR. someone mentioned than half the nation doesnt want this war. not true. way more people dislike this war than people who want it. so really the people who WANT this war are the people who are running my country. which brings me to why we are over there. I believe than this war isnt being fought COMPLETLY over oil (it plays a large part but not entierly) and doesnt have a whole lot to do with big buisness. This war is said to be the next vietnam b/c none of us really know why we are over there. I mean, we went over to kick the shit outta whoever bombed the WTC, which was involved with Bin laden. then bush decides to go "liberate" iraq. THIS IS WHAT PISSES ME OFF MOST ABOUT THIS WAR!!!!!!!!! is it just me or is FORCING democracy onto a country weaker than it seem to make it not a democracy at all but more like an imperialistic action made by my government. I think we are going to see big things happen in Iraq because of our sort the "unatural creation" they made in Iraq. almost reminds me of a certian situation happining not to long ago. (aka the entire freeing of India from England with gandhi and whatnit)


    ^^^^^by the way psydo thats called utilitarianism. and no, we cant afford to give out billions of dollars for other contries. The U.s has borrowed TONS of money to pay for this war and we are now in great debt because of it.
     
  14. I want to say something to the kid who doesnt believe in giving aid to a country that cant give something back. You say, we usually bring food down to a sxhelter because we have more than we need. Isnt that what this country is known for man? Wasting. We waste shit that we dont need.

    This is the last thing im going to say on this...because i feel like it explains an american completely.

    Guy goes to mcdonalds...orders 27 dollars worth of food..and some cents. He pays for his food, and when hes gettin his 2 or 3 dollars back in change..he glances down at that little money holder that says " Help, kids are starving " ...and he puts his change in his pocket and drives up to the next window. half an hour later...that same guy is throwing out probably, 10 bucks in food because they didnt eat it all.

    And thats greed. Greed is a sin to the "christian" you say. Well, Im not a religious person...I just think that everyone knows ( no matter what religion you are ) the difference between right and wrong...and everyone kows when they are doing something that isnt right. Even if you think its cool, or alright... you know it isnt right. And you know greed isnt a good thing. haha, so...i dont know. you take it from there.
     
  15. Look, I agree with you, many Americans are generally spoiled. And yes, too many Americans are wasteful. But were talking about pulling an ENTIRE FUCKING COUNTRY out of national poverty, starvation, and all-around shittyness just for the sake of being "nice". If theres no benefit to spending billions bringing a country out of a shithole, why the fuck do it in the first place. The world's not perfect buddy. If you ain't got nothing to bring to the table, then too fucking bad. That's the way it is.

    Ok, so generalize the entire population of the most culturally and racially diverse nation on Earth, way to discredit yourself.

    Give me an example with basis in fact, por favor.

    The concept of "Right and Wrong" is purely subjective. Please debate with facts which back up your opinions.

    BTW, pseudo ill get to you on your response, but im too stoned right now to type up an essay, so be patient and ill get back to ya. :)
     
  16. texans sure do love to justify their fucking oil
     
  17. yeh, its a shame america has to go off invading other countries when they got a pretty dam good oil resource already. ah well, its the american way.
     

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