the first brother to brother convo on this

me and my brother had a debate that just ended, unfortunately we werent finished, so maybe i can post a follow up later. this is about drug use, mainly. i hope you sit down, maybe pop an adderall and read this. im proud.


Big Bobby W 67 (2:55:29 AM): i had the greatest conversation with mom and dad
Big Bobby W 67 (2:55:34 AM): recently
BigfootJHW (2:55:43 AM): really, what was it about
Big Bobby W 67 (2:56:07 AM): me and mom were just talking, and i just asked her what she "knew" about pot since she brought it up
Big Bobby W 67 (2:56:26 AM): it lasted a half hour till dad got home and it graduated to all drugs
BigfootJHW (2:56:43 AM): what did they say
BigfootJHW (2:56:49 AM): she say, i guess
Big Bobby W 67 (2:57:30 AM): biiiig back and forth b/w me and dad, but i totally changed theyre perspectives and dad taught me some stuff as well. she admitted she didnt know anything other than the decade propoganda
Big Bobby W 67 (2:57:40 AM): so we walked through it together
Big Bobby W 67 (2:58:07 AM): it was very engrossing for two hours
BigfootJHW (2:58:18 AM): you didn't find it weird?
Big Bobby W 67 (2:58:40 AM): no, i wanted to know what they thought
Big Bobby W 67 (2:58:47 AM): and i corrected them on most points
BigfootJHW (2:59:22 AM): what did they say at the end
Big Bobby W 67 (3:00:00 AM): "acid making your brain bleed" "xtc makes holes in your brain" that type of stuff....they agreed that it should be personal choice, and they agreed with my model of legalization
Big Bobby W 67 (3:00:14 AM): really cool
BigfootJHW (3:00:41 AM): well that's pretty cool
Big Bobby W 67 (3:00:45 AM): si
Big Bobby W 67 (3:00:55 AM): you know mexico legalized everything?
BigfootJHW (3:01:12 AM): yeah i heard that on the news
Big Bobby W 67 (3:01:15 AM): thats gonna be so disastrous, people have no idea
Big Bobby W 67 (3:01:25 AM): its gonna be Needle Park times a thousand
BigfootJHW (3:01:58 AM): probably
Big Bobby W 67 (3:02:06 AM): our govt is trying to interfere, and i kinda agree with it
BigfootJHW (3:02:33 AM): why, if that's what they choose
Big Bobby W 67 (3:02:46 AM): because dude, its not the right way:
BigfootJHW (3:03:08 AM): what's the right way
Big Bobby W 67 (3:03:30 AM): instead of regulating, the govt is giving up...
Big Bobby W 67 (3:04:00 AM): these newly legalized drugs are gonna attract more tourism
Big Bobby W 67 (3:04:22 AM): and these newly legalized drugs still need a source, which means organized crime is gonna skyrocket
Big Bobby W 67 (3:04:58 AM): when this comepletely blows up, its gonna eradicate any chances for the US to consider legalization
BigfootJHW (3:04:59 AM): yeah, it's a problem when it's only legal to have it, someway you still have to get it
Big Bobby W 67 (3:05:00 AM): which sucks
Big Bobby W 67 (3:06:18 AM): theyll just point and say, look what legalization did to mexico
Big Bobby W 67 (3:06:31 AM): really depressing
BigfootJHW (3:06:59 AM): not as depressing as people not eating
Big Bobby W 67 (3:07:04 AM): i thought we were evolving
Big Bobby W 67 (3:07:05 AM): meh
Big Bobby W 67 (3:07:14 AM): im american, i dont care
BigfootJHW (3:07:28 AM): precisely
BigfootJHW (3:07:32 AM): depressing
Big Bobby W 67 (3:08:16 AM): ignorance is bliss, remember
Big Bobby W 67 (3:08:21 AM): abuh
BigfootJHW (3:08:31 AM): abuh?
Big Bobby W 67 (3:09:02 AM): the sound chris griffin made when told he couldnt see his dad anymore
BigfootJHW (3:09:13 AM): hahahahaha
Big Bobby W 67 (3:09:39 AM): but our country will be safer as soon as the drug czar is someone who actually has knowledge about....drugs
BigfootJHW (3:11:25 AM): yeah i guess, i think the islam thing is a little bit more important thought
Big Bobby W 67 (3:12:16 AM): really? why dont we get our own country organized and stabile before we keep pouring money out
BigfootJHW (3:13:04 AM): i actually agree, but that means not messing with mexico as well
Big Bobby W 67 (3:13:22 AM): this is not an issue to be swept aside, drug users who still contribute to our society do not vote because they are demonized by our government
Big Bobby W 67 (3:13:31 AM): ok then
Big Bobby W 67 (3:13:58 AM): you can not have unity when personal choice is obstructed
Big Bobby W 67 (3:14:19 AM): we need to eradicate the number one cause of organized crime
BigfootJHW (3:14:19 AM): gay people do not vote because they are demonized by our government
Big Bobby W 67 (3:14:23 AM): no no
Big Bobby W 67 (3:14:33 AM): thats a only social taboo now, they finally got their rights
Big Bobby W 67 (3:14:36 AM): besides
BigfootJHW (3:14:50 AM): they have no rights in north carolina
Big Bobby W 67 (3:15:00 AM): every arguement for homosexual marriage can be turned around for usage of drugs
BigfootJHW (3:15:21 AM): what do you mean
Big Bobby W 67 (3:15:53 AM): "its personal choice" "it doesnt intrude on others' rights"
BigfootJHW (3:17:02 AM): sure, so either one is fine with me
Big Bobby W 67 (3:17:14 AM): PLUS, if the government truly cares about the safety of its citizens
BigfootJHW (3:17:20 AM): gotta pee
Big Bobby W 67 (3:18:15 AM): then it would regulate the distribution of drugs similarly to alcohol, so that the drug consumer would not be harmed by unpredictable street drugs
Big Bobby W 67 (3:20:55 AM): yea there would still be a black market for those under 18/21, but that is inevitable...there is that black market today for alcohol and nicotine which each kill more people than crack, meth, heroin combined everyday.
BigfootJHW (3:21:46 AM): back from peeing -- which is all cool and everything, but when large numbers of people in america can't even afford seeing a doctor or a dentist, there are a few more important issues to worry about
Big Bobby W 67 (3:22:23 AM): Big pharmeceuticals are on a teeter totter towards recession. they could tax the drugs that they distribute.
Big Bobby W 67 (3:22:44 AM): ok ill give you that, but give me a scenario that could change so quickly....im not saying its the foremost problem
Big Bobby W 67 (3:23:06 AM): im saying its an easily corrected problem that sucks money out of our system
Big Bobby W 67 (3:23:37 AM): its a thorn in our side that could easily be plucked to ensure focus on more widespread problems
BigfootJHW (3:24:00 AM): that's true, but that doesn't change the fact it would take tons of work to persuade the majority of people to change their minds about it
Big Bobby W 67 (3:24:42 AM): as opposed to the tons of work it would take to raise the general economy and standard of living?
Big Bobby W 67 (3:25:52 AM): im saying if open minds were present, this could be changed in a day. there arent many social problems in our country that perspective alone prohibits progress
Big Bobby W 67 (3:26:11 AM): (a day is an exaggeration)
BigfootJHW (3:26:28 AM): yes, as opposed to that, the majority of people in america are afraid of drugs, and they're the ones who vote - if open minds were present, a million problems could be solved, if open minds were present, we wouldn't have the president we have now
Big Bobby W 67 (3:27:06 AM): how many "problems" today are perpetuated solely through mindset?
Big Bobby W 67 (3:27:16 AM): as opposed to resources etc.
BigfootJHW (3:27:32 AM): i don't understand
Big Bobby W 67 (3:27:39 AM): like you said
Big Bobby W 67 (3:28:06 AM): its the fear and inherent taboo of drugs that prevent this from being in a forum where it could make change
Big Bobby W 67 (3:28:28 AM): politicians wont promote it, their campaign would flounder before it started
Big Bobby W 67 (3:28:45 AM): its a bargaining chip to campaign FOR the war on drugs
BigfootJHW (3:29:13 AM): it's the fear of most social problems today that prevent them from being discussed - it's not just drugs, it's a multitude of things
Big Bobby W 67 (3:30:40 AM): ah but what other problems today have such widespread consequences in every aspect of society? im only talking mindset, other problems have complications like the resources to deal with them, the organization to arrange them....we have the resources to deal with the war on drugs
Big Bobby W 67 (3:30:47 AM): its only mindset that prohibits it
Big Bobby W 67 (3:32:03 AM): if youre taking a test, you finish the easiest ones first and save your valuable time for the tough ones. this is the analogy.
BigfootJHW (3:32:20 AM): i agree -- my point is, you won't get people to change their mindset, the people who agree with you point of view already vote for like-minded people, and those who would oppose it are the baby-boomers, who have the voting base
Big Bobby W 67 (3:33:26 AM): but is that really so? 1 in twenty americans ADMIT that they regularly use marijuana (i hate statistics by the way)
BigfootJHW (3:33:53 AM): life isn't a test -- the whole "save the hardest problems don't work in life", drugs don't have the capacity to erase humanity from the planet - nuclear proliferation does
Big Bobby W 67 (3:35:13 AM): ok but in order to appropriate more resources towards solving those problems, why not eradicate a money burner?
BigfootJHW (3:35:50 AM): dude, i'm not arguing against you, i'm just saying good luck in trying to change someone's mind
Big Bobby W 67 (3:36:56 AM): i know, but only through debates like this will people change their mind, more information needs to be put out there, the decade changing anti drug campaigns need to quit
Big Bobby W 67 (3:37:28 AM): the govt is feeding fire to the problem theyre trying to eliminate
Big Bobby W 67 (3:37:48 AM): here's the kicker:
Big Bobby W 67 (3:39:10 AM): you say we need to focus more on other things, but there is a War on Drugs, its a campaign against personal freedom. since there is already effort and resources going towards this campaign, it isnt uncalled for to propose drastic change…especially when the status quo is failing miserable
Big Bobby W 67 (3:39:12 AM): y*
Big Bobby W 67 (3:39:45 AM): its not working, lets try something else
Big Bobby W 67 (3:40:08 AM): human evolution didnt stop at the thumbs
BigfootJHW (3:40:41 AM): again, i agree, i'm just playing devil's advocate and saying what people will say back -- no it didn't, b/c pandas have thumbs too
BigfootJHW (3:41:02 AM): and so do koalas actually, one of their six digits
Big Bobby W 67 (3:41:20 AM): ha touche.... but i can shoot down every arguement there is, trust me dad threw a lot at me
Big Bobby W 67 (3:41:47 AM): its blind demonization, and it needs to cease
BigfootJHW (3:42:12 AM): hahaha he probably did, but the thing is, logic alone doesn't always carry the day
Big Bobby W 67 (3:42:42 AM): but proof does, see you take the logic, and then you apply it to today's society
Big Bobby W 67 (3:43:06 AM): its not my fault that people are ignorant, but i am willing to enlighten them
Big Bobby W 67 (3:44:28 AM): i despise the hypochristian complex that pervades our society and i plan to change it one person at a time
Big Bobby W 67 (3:44:34 AM): thats my flag
BigfootJHW (3:44:44 AM): no, my point is proof, logic, truth don't always carry the day -- you can argue till you're blue in the face and all somebody might say to you is, "you make sense, but my minister/mother/father say it's bad so i don't agree with you
Big Bobby W 67 (3:45:15 AM): we're back at the authority problem
Big Bobby W 67 (3:45:40 AM): if pro-legalization advocates want change, they go to where those people just pointed
Big Bobby W 67 (3:45:45 AM): and they argue again
Big Bobby W 67 (3:45:52 AM): and slowly climb the ladder
BigfootJHW (3:46:47 AM): which would be great and all, but at the end of the day, if people can't afford to eat and pay for their health, they're not going to be worried about getting messed up
BigfootJHW (3:47:05 AM): they won't have the money to pay for these new legal drugs
Big Bobby W 67 (3:47:38 AM): but see its not about the "temporary irreality", to some of these people its a religion upon itself
BigfootJHW (3:47:59 AM): what
Big Bobby W 67 (3:48:10 AM): what what?
BigfootJHW (3:48:28 AM): what is temporary irreality
Big Bobby W 67 (3:48:42 AM): getting fucked up
BigfootJHW (3:48:54 AM): oh
Big Bobby W 67 (3:49:31 AM): there is not a single reason why this shouldnt happen
Big Bobby W 67 (3:49:53 AM): and people who advocate marijuana alone are idiots
BigfootJHW (3:50:26 AM): reason doesn't enter into ti
BigfootJHW (3:50:27 AM): it
Big Bobby W 67 (3:50:34 AM): ha
Big Bobby W 67 (3:50:50 AM): then replace reason with argument
BigfootJHW (3:51:44 AM): intelligent argument doesn't always carry the day, if it did we wouldn't be at war in iraq right now
Big Bobby W 67 (3:52:03 AM): this is unrelated and ridiculous
Big Bobby W 67 (3:52:43 AM): there were documented weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, how do we know? we looked at the friggin receipt
Big Bobby W 67 (3:53:29 AM): seriously though, yes they had the weapons, but this is unrelated and its partisan
Big Bobby W 67 (3:53:47 AM): this isnt analogous to the WOD at all
BigfootJHW (3:54:47 AM): i'm not trying to start a different arugement, i'm just saying most people don't argue anymore, they just say, i see your point but..... -- like i said, i didn't want to start a different argument, but many other countries just as bad as iraq have those same weapons and more, not to mention much harsher internal measures i.e. saudi arabia
BigfootJHW (3:54:50 AM): ok no more
Big Bobby W 67 (3:55:20 AM): and no, it may not be intelligent arguement that wins, but the incessant pounding of these values that needs to occur in order to make change
Big Bobby W 67 (3:55:39 AM): everyone's got their drug
Big Bobby W 67 (3:55:41 AM): everyone
Big Bobby W 67 (3:56:33 AM): whether its religion, sex, caffiene, a regimented schedule, physical activity, psylocibin mushrooms
Big Bobby W 67 (3:56:36 AM): etc
Big Bobby W 67 (3:57:08 AM): why allow some and not others, doesnt outlawing nature seem a bit...unnatural?
BigfootJHW (3:57:20 AM): how is a regimented schedule a drug
BigfootJHW (3:57:27 AM): it's not something you take into your body
Big Bobby W 67 (3:57:30 AM): man thats the most common
Big Bobby W 67 (3:57:41 AM): people are so secure without having to think
Big Bobby W 67 (3:57:54 AM): they get up go to work go home, eat sleep fuck repeat
BigfootJHW (3:57:57 AM): but that's not a drug
Big Bobby W 67 (3:58:03 AM): yes it is!
BigfootJHW (3:58:07 AM): that's a verb
Big Bobby W 67 (3:58:39 AM): yes it is, it is a drug that makes the person feel comfortable just as much as religion is a drug
BigfootJHW (3:59:14 AM): it's an alteration of your mood, but it's not a physical substance that can be regulated, measured and sold
Big Bobby W 67 (3:59:15 AM): it makes a person feel something that they otherwise wouldnt if it werent there
Big Bobby W 67 (3:59:24 AM): its still a drug
Big Bobby W 67 (3:59:44 AM): the tangibility doesnt matter
Big Bobby W 67 (3:59:52 AM): we're talking freedom of choice
BigfootJHW (4:00:48 AM): that's ridiculous, so everyone time i put on my headphones i'm taking a drug -- the tangibility does matter, details are what make lawyers
Big Bobby W 67 (4:01:39 AM): lawyers ruined this country...90% of them give the good 10% a bad name, anyway....yes what i am sayin is exactly that
Big Bobby W 67 (4:01:55 AM): someone want to trip on acid, you want to put in a cd
Big Bobby W 67 (4:02:09 AM): but instead you only can legally listen to pop music
Big Bobby W 67 (4:02:18 AM): jazz rocknroll etc are illegal
Big Bobby W 67 (4:02:23 AM): only pop music is allowed
BigfootJHW (4:02:29 AM): ?
Big Bobby W 67 (4:02:47 AM): just follow me here down hypothetical lane
BigfootJHW (4:02:52 AM): oh
BigfootJHW (4:02:55 AM): i see what you're saying
Big Bobby W 67 (4:02:56 AM): say only pop music is allowed
Big Bobby W 67 (4:03:20 AM): (symbolizing alcohol, nicotene, caffiene <-- one of the worst mentally)
Big Bobby W 67 (4:03:32 AM): but youre still gonna listen to what music makes you happy man
BigfootJHW (4:04:12 AM): yeah it's pretty dumb to have some regulated and some not
Big Bobby W 67 (4:04:39 AM): so why not stop criminalizing personal freedom and let them do what they will, the law should step in only when a person's choice intrudes upon another's freedom
Big Bobby W 67 (4:04:46 AM): thats it
Big Bobby W 67 (4:04:48 AM): thats done
Big Bobby W 67 (4:05:03 AM): wrap it up, what arguement to that is there?
BigfootJHW (4:05:13 AM): there isn't
Big Bobby W 67 (4:05:37 AM): exactly and thats how every debate ive had ended, even though i didnt mean to
Big Bobby W 67 (4:05:49 AM): so we gotta keep talking
Big Bobby W 67 (4:06:06 AM): those who are dedicated need to keep arguing
BigfootJHW (4:06:09 AM): that's what i'm trying to say, arguments are not the end of the line, people accept things on faith without thinking about them
BigfootJHW (4:06:55 AM): i've tried changing people's minds, but many times they just say, you have good points and i can't argue you, i just don't think you're right
Big Bobby W 67 (4:07:12 AM): but when you get down to it and show them that they are humiliating themselves as well as impeding progress...you can change them
Big Bobby W 67 (4:07:51 AM): “you have good points and i can't argue you, i just don't think you're right”...if thats the truth, humanity is fucked
Big Bobby W 67 (4:08:04 AM): if someone as intelligent as you cant understand this, we're done
Big Bobby W 67 (4:08:15 AM): evolution stops
BigfootJHW (4:08:22 AM): dude, i totally understand
BigfootJHW (4:08:28 AM): i'm just trying to say that other people won't
Big Bobby W 67 (4:08:41 AM): oh ok
Big Bobby W 67 (4:09:00 AM): still, when i think about it...i try not to realize that, otherwise why would I keep trying?
BigfootJHW (4:09:05 AM): that's been my whole point, that other people won't want to hear it b/c of the emotions involved
Big Bobby W 67 (4:09:19 AM): BUT GAYS HAD THEIR DAY
Big Bobby W 67 (4:09:30 AM): INTERRACIAL MARRIAGES HAD THEYRE DAY
Big Bobby W 67 (4:09:33 AM): its not impossible
BigfootJHW (4:09:44 AM): not it's not
BigfootJHW (4:09:53 AM): gays still haven't had their day, btw
Big Bobby W 67 (4:09:54 AM): its gonna be tough reversing 100 years of govt bullshit propagnda
Big Bobby W 67 (4:10:06 AM): well they got the foot in the door
hBigfootJHW (4:10:11 AM): yes, yes they do
Big Bobby W 67 (4:10:31 AM): is that a closet door?
Big Bobby W 67 (4:10:35 AM): HA
BigfootJHW (4:11:01 AM): libertarians think they same way, they very much want to legalize drugs, and there are many more libertarians in congress now
Big Bobby W 67 (4:11:14 AM): libertarians are idiots for the most part
Big Bobby W 67 (4:11:26 AM): i will generalize that and not take it back
Big Bobby W 67 (4:11:28 AM): idiots
Big Bobby W 67 (4:11:48 AM): because those same people are nazis when it comes to gun control
Big Bobby W 67 (4:12:02 AM): but yea its a step
BigfootJHW (4:12:03 AM): which is true, but they are possible allies in that they are working to legalize drugs
Big Bobby W 67 (4:12:13 AM): i acknowledge
BigfootJHW (4:12:39 AM): not true liberatarians, hunter s thompson was a registered libertarian, and he owned lots of guns
BigfootJHW (4:12:49 AM): sadly
BigfootJHW (4:13:38 AM): sadly b/c of how he died
Big Bobby W 67 (4:13:49 AM): he was also a writer, which means he only wrote about our state of affairs, never did a damn thing to change them....you just reinforce my idiot statement
Big Bobby W 67 (4:13:55 AM): how did he die
Big Bobby W 67 (4:14:17 AM): i just wish marijuana-alone advocates would cease to be though
Big Bobby W 67 (4:14:21 AM): theyre all idiots
BigfootJHW (4:16:48 AM): wrong, you don't know him, he was awesome -- he ran for sherrif of denver on the "freak ticket" (that was the real name), his only platform being drug legalization
Big Bobby W 67 (4:17:09 AM): i retract my statement being on no information
Big Bobby W 67 (4:17:17 AM): that was ignorant of me
BigfootJHW (4:17:25 AM): he told jerry garcia numerous times "if you damn hippies would just vote you would solve alot of your problems"
Big Bobby W 67 (4:17:42 AM): ah but what do they have to vote for
Big Bobby W 67 (4:17:56 AM): everywhere they turn its something they dont agree with
BigfootJHW (4:18:14 AM): the guy he was running against had a crew cut, so hunter thompson shaved his head and called him "my long-haired oppenent"
Big Bobby W 67 (4:19:02 AM): pro pot people want to push their ideals, but coke and heroin are quite the medical miracles. LSD is an ergot fungus, not only will it rid you of your migraine it will also cleanse your third eye. MDMA (xtc) is doing some very pleasing things with depression
BigfootJHW (4:19:17 AM): that was his point, if you don't like what you see, get involved and change it, don't just sit back and bitch, that's why he ran
Big Bobby W 67 (4:19:23 AM): even thought i dont agree with treatments for depression
Big Bobby W 67 (4:19:36 AM): yea but thats not the course
BigfootJHW (4:19:46 AM): mdma is also doing some amazing things with degenerating dopamine receptors
Big Bobby W 67 (4:20:11 AM): and pills that are already prescribed dont?
Big Bobby W 67 (4:20:49 AM): i mean hell, at least your having fun with MDMA....but i dont agree with treatments for depression
BigfootJHW (4:20:54 AM): it's a leading cause of parkinson's disease in animal studies, no, not to the degree, that's why they're legalized, see we have to learn all the brain chemistry of this stuff in pharmacology
Big Bobby W 67 (4:21:03 AM): dude dont give me animals
BigfootJHW (4:21:25 AM): i have to go to bed, my other half is mad at me
Big Bobby W 67 (4:21:29 AM): please dont give me animals, i know that youre the doctor
Big Bobby W 67 (4:21:31 AM): ok
Big Bobby W 67 (4:21:41 AM): night
BigfootJHW (4:21:43 AM): she has to be at work by 5 30
Big Bobby W 67 (4:21:54 AM): take it easy
BigfootJHW (4:21:56 AM): later dood

 

cool i wasnt expecting anyone really to read it all, and if one single point you dont agree with turns you off, id rather you just ignore my posts altogether.

edit: i guess this is just special to me cuz me and my brother arent very close i.e. 7 years difference b/w age

 

ill try to get an updated conversation, i doubt it will incite as much fervor as this one did. i just noticed the timing of the conversation, we were firing up.

 

thank god.

 

well fuck

 

haha i know, i had my steamroller on cue