hmmmm? then why isn't Gore a president? 'cos he won the election but thne something happened and Bush is sitting there........
just for the record nikidog, i completely agree with you. sometimes people are just too naive to realize the truth. Have you ever stopped and considered "maybe not everyone in the world wants peace?". Saddam doesnt' think like us, he doesnt want the death to stop. We cannot expect to leave him alone and that everything will be like mr rogers neighboorhood. Yes we have entered Iraq and killed innocent civilians, there is no denying that. But isn't it true that sometimes in order to prevent future death and destruction, one might have to resort to tactics that may cause death and destruction? and to call us "unpatriotic cowards" is just far out ignorant, we want to do what is right for our country, and for our people. September 11th is proof of what terrorists (who Saddam funds) can do to our country, and sometimes, believe it or not, a strong country like ourselves must be proactive instead of reactive. I'm damn proud of those who are serving our country at this very moment, and for those that have died in the past for fighting for our freedom. nikidog, i'm gonna go smoke a bowl for your uncle, grandfather, father, and my cousin, who is busting his ass in kuwait to make sure those motherfuckers don't drive another plane into our builidings. But when i read these forums, it also makes me damn proud that we live in a country where everyone can voice their opinions without fear of persecution. This is what America is, and I'm proud to be an american.
ugeman... the way you say it, its as if you believe that the USA is the only nation with freedom of speech! "Have you ever stopped and considered "maybe not everyone in the world wants peace?"." ??? uhh. no i hadnt considered that. thats why i went out and got campaigning for peace because i thought everyone thought just like me and wanted peace. now back to the oil thing... its not just oil... do you think the capitalists would stop at just one comodity? nope, niether do i. they're in it for everything... from construction to management.
I said anyone that suggests I leave my country rather than stay to change it for the better is an unpatriotic coward--what I would call you, on the other hand, is apathetic. Proactive war is a slippery slope my friend. I'm not so much worried about what's happening now (though it is worse than anything my country has done in my life), I'm much more worried about the people who are going to come through the door that the Gang of Four (Dubya, cheney, rumsfeld and wolfowitz) have opened. Now all someone has to do to go kill whoever they want is be in government and call the people they want dead or opressed 'terrorists'. This is why so many have compared the current American government to Mcarthyism or Nazi Germany. Not because they're exactly like these people, but because they use similar tactics. They make a percieved fear so very menacing that something must be done, communists in Mcarthy's case, and Jews in Hitler's case, it's just a coincidence that what they want done will help them in particular, it's just musfortune that people have to die because of it, and it's simply a fallacy on the part of the majority of the world to not want us to be able to do this on a whim :: War isn't only not the answer, it's the very problem. Violence begets violence, fear and pride keep the cycle going. When I see Americans striking down their fears and bringing peace to the world with their influence and prosperity rather than their giant guns, then I'll be proud to be an American. And I want to be proud, so I'll stay here and make it that way.
I think that we were absolutely justified in fighting Iraq. If I'd been Bush I wouldnt have tried to persuade the UN, I'd have done it anyway. We gave Saddam waayyy too much time. He was an insane man who did horrible things to his people. To the people of Iraq, we must be the lesser of 2 evils. Some innocent civilians did get killed in the war, but why do people make a stink about how horrible we are for it? It is WAR, after all! Ill bet Saddam's regime killed more men per week, most of them innocent, than we did in the entire war. Anyone who's complained should have been sent over there for a while. If they weren't killed by the government just because they werent Iraqi, theyd BEG for war!
amen to ragnar, unfortunately our voices will stand no chance in a forum where people underestimate how hard it is to maintain peace...
maintain peace!!???!?!?!?!?!????!????!??! ?!???!??!?!?!!?!?!???!?!???!?!? !??!?!?!?!??!?!? ?!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!???????????? how can anyone claim to claim to "maintain peace" with WAR when we asume that peace be the meaning for the opposite of war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? "it is war after all" indeed. thankyou for seeing things as what is rather than what can, could or should be done. "Ill bet Saddam's regime killed more men per week, most of them innocent, than we did in the entire war." i'll take that bet. i'll put 9 Oz on the line for it. do i get to include all the bombs dropped on iraq in "peace time" and i'd just like noe to re-iterate a point that i brought up before and during the war... would it not have been far better for the iraqi people if instead of sending over 300,000 soldiers we sent 300,000 weapons inspectors? and what of the manipulated anf faked evidence? does this mean nothing to those who believe their nations propaganda? im going to stop there because i know that if i didnt force myself to stop i'd go on and on forever.
I'm not even going to bother reading the previous 2 pages because I know it's all bullshit. To answer your question, YES, I do believe it was the right thing to do.
narrow minded, ignorant, fool. GO READ IT... you'd be suprised to learn that there actually people who agree with you. so go on... go read it, massage your ego and your blind dessire to be right all the time.
no i wasnt talking about the 35 years of geniocide, murder, torture, rape, gassing, fear, starvation, oppression, of the hundreds of thousands killed and many more missing Iraqis who died at the hands of Saddam Hussein? if you read a little more closely you'll see i was talking about the few thousand who died to give that poor, corrupte, impoverished society a shot a freedom, enforced democracy, dirty water or none at all, disrupted food supplies and the large scale distruction of the hospitals. dont you realise nikidawg... Iraq isnt and wasnt some poor developing country struggling to feed and clothe their children... Iraq is a rich industrious nation (poor once u take santctions into consideration) with a VERY well educated population, and an infrastructure that worked. .. go to syria you say? you know what you sound like? you sound like "the man on the street" on a FOX or CNN news broadcast. there are worse places than syria. Do you think that Saudi Arabia has cleaned up its act since its latest mass genocide spree in the 90s? oh... thats right i forgot, we dont know about that because 'that never happened' because they are our allies and give us plenty of oil. and what about china? lets go over there and invade them. we know that there has been years of oppression over there. half of Korea? Zimbabwe? Thailand? Lybia? Argentina? New Zealand? Where do we draw the line sherrif? and to finish... a quote from bill: We're like Jack Palance in the movie Shane, throwing a gun at the sheep herder's feet. "Pick up the gun." "I dont wanna pick up the gun mister... you'll shoot me." "Pick up the gun" "I dont want no trouble mister... i just came down here to the store for some hard rock candy for my kids and some gingam for my wife... i dont even know what gingam is, but she... she goes through about 4 rolls of the stuff a week. I dont want no trouble mister" "Pick up the gun" --sheep herder looks at gun... looks at JP... looks at gun... sheepishly reaches for gun and, the moment his hand picks it up....-- *BANG BANG BANG* "you all saw him... ... He had a gun" The late great prophet, philosopher and comedian Bill Hicks, Killed by those he sought to expose. *forcing myself to be quiet again*
argh i don't know how to treat this in a way that is understandable to the victims of propaganda. i'll give it a shot tho' 1: nobody gives the US a right to "rectify" all the wrongs in the world. espescially seeing as the US is a cause of much of it. 2: that some fools crashed some airplanes into some buildings does *not* give the US a carte blanche to attack any country they perceive as a (imagined) threat 3: no country actually challenges the US, some independent radical groups do, but not any nation states. 4: the US if it continues with its pre-emptive strikes will only be perceived as an attacker. not a defender. no matter the motives that are trumped up (like with the recent iraq war, which was based upon lies) 5: imperialism is passe i'm done.
Hey if the US didn't ever try to rectify the wrongs in the world, all of Europe would be speaking GERMAN right now. We have to try to make things right because nobody else will. And if the countries in the UN hadn't been getting oil from Saddam, or if they thought they were in danger of being attacked by Saddam, they'd have agreed to go to war in a nanosecond. France and Russia were Iraq's two biggest oil buyers. Why do you think Chirac and Putin were against war?
a big fat pile of bollocks. read your history books. if anybody should take credit for grinding down the german war machine, it is the russians. not that the US didn't contribute, but that was only *after* germany declared war un the US. US casualties during WW2 in europe, less than 300.000. russian casualties, over 8 million. and the US didn't get oil from iraq during the "food for oil" programme? get a grip dude. as for france and russia beeing against the iraq war part 2, it's been said before but i'll reiterate: attacking a foreign country just 'coz you don't like the regime in it is a crime in international law. it is something that rogue states do. in this respect the US have shown themselves to be no better than germany when they attacked poland and thus started the 2nd world war. and they still haven't found any wmd. never will. it was all based on a huge fat lie. and bush is a warmonger. like adolf.
You need to get a grip if you think the only reason we had for attacking Iraq was that we didn't like them. Sure, we haven't found wmd yet, but we have found plenty else...80 mass graves, with thousands and thousands of bodies, all killed by Saddam's regime. Hundreds of torture chambers. Trucks fitted with equipment for making biological weapons. I'd say it's a matter of time till we find the actual weapons. Do you really think it was all a big lie??? Why would we do that?? I actually wish we could have had peace, but Saddam didn't want it to happen.
Ragnar go learn something. "but we have found plenty else...80 mass graves, with thousands and thousands of bodies, all killed by Saddam's regime" no shit!? really!?? wow! i would have never guessed. [sarcasm btw] probably wasnt such a hot idea to make him leader of iraq in the first place then was it. the middle east was more peacefull before the west started interfering. "Trucks fitted with equipment for making biological weapons." actually there was NO TRACE of any dangerous biological agents, and upon closer inspection, closer than some grunt looking at it for 5 seconds, it was discovered that it was actually more likely to have been used to produce Hydrogen for weather baloons. lol... thats right... the ONLY time they come up with something (excluding all the times they get a little jumpy when they see a jar or a barrel) and it turns out to be a big fat zero. its not ALL a big lie... but the vast majority of it is... particularly if you live in the states... i've seen the news u guys have to put up with there. It pisses me of that our news over here is going the same way. BBC are the quiet puppets of the Government, ITV are the cheese waggon designed to dumb down the people... only Channel 4 seems to have maintained any journalistic integrity. "I actually wish we could have had peace, but Saddam didn't want it to happen" hahahha. and i suppose Bush does? is that what you are saying? lemme ask you this... Who has started more wars per year of their term in power, Bush or Sadam?
You know digit were counting on your support of the Republican partys bid for US re-election, We want to set up an embassy at the castle in Aberfolye Scotland, We will bring camera crews to film the opulent way you scotts are really living!
heehee. opulent. the republican party doesnt have enough money to get my support. Michael Moore for President!