About to start new plants in both my medical tent and also my indoor veggie tent. Only have one grow in soil and that was in an advertised “water only from seed to harvest” soil. There were major problems right from the very instant the seeds sprouted so not going that route again. want to try my own soil - figure it can’t get much worst than the last time… would really appreciate thoughts on the mix I was going to prepare. Base: 3 bags (2cf each = 6cf) Happy Frog potting mix 1 bag (1.75cf) Botanicare CocoGro perlite for aeration as needed Total-approx 8 cf base = 60gal Add in: 1 bag (1cf) Coast of Maine organic cow manure compost 1/2 bag (approx 15lbs) - Wiggle-Worm worm casting 12 cups Espoma Bio-tone starter (4-3-3) fert. w/ mycorrhizae 8 cups DTE neem seed meal (6-1-2) 4 cups DTE Azomite powder 0-0-0.2 6 cups Dolomite lime powder 3 cups Epson salt Also have 4lbs (12 cups) of kelp meal. not sure if I should just add it intro the mix or reserve it out and use it as a top dressing along with EWC teas during the grow I was told that was nothing in this mix that should really require “cooking”. I was going to mix it up and use it right away. This is my first time trying to mix a soil for a grow so other than going blind from trying to research and learn what I could I’m just as confused as when I started. I really want to keep it as SIMPLE as possible. Oh, and the soil is for both my medical tent and also my indoor veggie / herb / fruit tent. This mix I found in a thread of soil mixes and liked the simplicity compared to most of the others. It only varies slightly based on what i could get locally at my ag store. I’m NOT expecting it to be a type of “water only from seed to harvest” supersoil. I was going to feed the soil with topdressing of the kelp meal and an EWC/molasses tea every 2nd or 3rd watering and figured I might need to ad a high P amendment during flowering. BEFORE I mix everything up I’d appreciate any feedback — does the mix look something workable? I’m on a budget and can’t dump a lot at a time on the amendments and again prefer to keep it as simple overall as possible! I was figuring that over time I could work different amendments into the soil to eventually get it to improve. Oh, and last thing… Both tents are only 2’x4”x 6’. in the veggie tent i was thinking that instead of 8 separate smart pots there is a strong HDX storage tote that measure 21.5” x 45.5” x 19.5”. and hold 55 gallons. it would be effectively a ~2’x4’ raised-garden in the tent for all the plants together. In the med tent was things of similar but (2) 18 gallon totes - one for one plant only. i’ll probably not do more than two plants at a time in bay med tent. Any downside I’m not considering except losing the ability to move the plants around if needed like if they were in the their own container? Sorry this post got so long!
I would use 8 cups of the kelp in the mix and use the 4 cups for teas and or topdressing. One big bed of soil is the way to go IMO. I would add 4 cups of gypsum, it's easy to find locally, 40 lbs $10 - $15.
No-Till Gardening: Revisited This is the most active soil thread here in the city and it's a good place to compare our list to yours. Right off the bat I'd say drop the Azomite as it got a few thing we don't recommend. Compaction is your worst enemy and I've gone as high as 30% of the mix to be Perlite. Home Depot sells it in 4 cubic foot bags. Can ship to store free if your local doesn't stock it. Good compost is key as are Earthworm castings but castings make the mix dense so don't go to heavy. If your adding to an existing bagged soil I like Ocean Forest over Happy Frog. Chicken Manure over Steer. My local Lowes sells this Depending on your location buy the laying hen version if you can find it. It's a bit hotter then Steer so use half the amount. I think a while and see what else is in my home blend. BNW
Easy Organic Soil Mix for Beginners Here is another good thread. Active enough that if it shows in the stacks several people will chime in and comment. Saved in our (Threads I follow) area and we get a notice when somebody posts. BNW
I agree to go with the chicken manure over the cow, also use some marine bird guano if your area stocks it. You may also want to add some rock phosphate and some blood meal as well.
i like that idea for the Kelp. almost bought a bag of gypsum today too but figured with the azomite it could wait... but I see someone is already posting the azomite is wrong. sigh.
already figured on perlite and was going up to 25% or so. I appreciate you say the chicken compost would have been better but my store didn't have it so it wasn't an option. I cant buy anything else at the moment. If the cow manure is plain bad for the mix i'll hold on to it and use it in the spring for outside but if it 's just a case that the chicken compost would have just been better but the cow compost is still ok to use I already have it and can use it if it will help at all. same on the FFOF. I bought the Happy Farm so that's done. I had heard the ocean forest was sometimes too hot and I'm running auto's in my med tent so I went with what i thought would be the safer choice. If it was a mistake I'll have to live with it. I really can't change what ii've already bought which is the mix list I supplied. I'd appreciate if it's something I simply shouldn't add in at all or if I'm really off on my amendment amounts, but while I greatly appreciate every bit of advise, if it's an item I already bought I can't buy any substitute items right now. I'll look at the thread link you supplied, thanks! but cant you tell me what's wrong with the azomite? I thought it was suppose to cover all the minerals * edit: ok, found this - a possible alum toxicity issue that may be or not be
Some use azomite, some do. I do use it, BnW doesn't, but also our environments are wildly different. Neither one of us are wrong, you just need to find out what's right for your particular environment & grow style. BTW, *I* add perlite @40% to give me proper drainage and aeration, 25% just isn't adequate. Wet
If azomite is all you have then use it, I use basalt rock dust and would recommend it, but your azomite is fine.
LOL I didn't catch you'd already bought it all. Not an issue, it'll work fine it's just my personal recommendations after years at this. I don't grow Autos but I've never found FFOF to be to hot for cannabis. Even my seeds start in it so it's not that hot. With Azomite it's a case of use it in the flower bed but leave it out of the Cannabis. We know Cannabis is a good cleanup plant as it picks up heavy metals from contaminated soil. Kind of a better safe then sorry if you haven't mixed yet. Take it as things I've learned over several years and remember next time your building soil Ahhh I should look for such and such. We all started someplace and kept reading and thinking how can I do better next Plant, Next soil Mix, Next dry and Cure. It's a deep Rabbit Hole you've fallen down. I did a lot of trail and error before I settled on what I use now. A lot comes down to what you can get locally. Steer manure is fine they both are pungent LOL Lowes for Chicken manure here. Home depot doesn't carry it. FFOF and Happy frog are very close in makeup. FFOF is a bit hotter charged is all. Your manure will make up the difference. It should do fine. BNW
wetdog To be honest if I remember it was on my shopping list early on and if I had found it I'd have bought and used it. Wasn't till much later the discussion came up on the Aluminum content and I try and avoid consuming Aluminum in general. Don't like to cook in it or grow with it. LOL call me weird. Primary Cookware here is old cast iron. And for sure add more Perlite as your amendments will drag down the soil and make it dense. Cannabis grows fastest in a loose un-compacted mix and especially with Autos you don't have a lot of veg time to play with. BNW
awesome, that now helps a bunch. I'll see about adding more perlite. I wasn't married to any real number, I was figuring on adding it in until it seemed loose and airy enough, whatever that amount was. I'm not used to having all the EWC and compost in though so I guess its will take more perlite than I think to compensate for those heavy items. With the exception of the kelp meal adding in now, are my amendment proportions ok? not too heavy on anything? I don't really know how the amendments affect the soil PH to make any kind of guess to know if the listed dolomite amount would be close to correct? this is a odd question I suppose and I better find out before I mix everything up... I have to have my two tents in a spare bedroom - no other options for me and it's fine except strong odors are not allowed and not just from weed smell and trying to be discreet but more from the open and non-air filtered veggie tent...... how bad is the smell from the cow compost when it get wet such as after watering? If it get wet and smells like a wet fresh barnyard I'll be divorced and homeless!!! LOL - but not LOL actually. The bag of compost is sitting in the house in the attic storage room and it doesn't smell but I'm not sure what happens after it gets wet. My wife who loves both gardens complained about the bad smell from the Neptune Harvest fish and seaweed fertilizer I used on the current veggies. Great stuff but stinks bad. If the compost is going to be that pungent I'll have to actually skip it and just go with the EWC.
I used fish ONCE in 2010 and it has been banned ever since. Perhaps in the winter with the house closed up wasn't the best idea. You may want to hold off on the manure or, try some in a smaller container that you can toss outside if it smells when wetted. I only use manures outside now. Happy wife, happy life. Wet
ok, there is my answer than I see..... looks like I better skip the compost and keep it until later for the outside plants.
@Smokey B McBongwater You were right that Ocean Forest is a little hot for autos. I suggest reading the beginning of my thread "Automatics make good Organic sinse", before starting your autos. There are some good tips, like starting seeds in their final pot and using seed starter. I have used liquid fish and fish meal indoors with no issues. I have also used most types of manure inside with no issues. ( I am a bachelor however). I agree with using 30-40% perlite for the best results. cheers os
actually, that thread of yours was one of the first ones I read a few months back that got me thinking about going soil and organic! yours and inthegarden's thread about easy organic soil mix. both of those threads is what convinced me to go this direction. Was already planning and do a lot of what you suggest: i.e: i do prefer to start my seeds in the final pot rather than transplant. That's just a personal preference anyway and add to it I'm growing autos so as you mention any transplant shock is too costly. AND I have light warrior just for starting there seeds in in the pot same as you also mention with a dugout area for the light warrior "bed" for the seed to start in. I destroyed the budget and found a few additional things to add in to my mix yesterday. This whole spoil thing better work now after what I spent! (no longer a "budget" grow!!) I'm telling myself in the long run it will be worth it for better results and not having to keeping opening on fertilizers. Was able to find 2 bags of chicken compost, crab meal and shrimp meal, gypsum, alfalfa meal, pumice, and biochar. besides the pumice I also picked up a lot of additional perlite for enough aeration. Everything is sitting waiting to get mixed (It's a bit cold - was 10* last night! waiting for a warm day to be able to get soil mixed up) is: this is the new plan unless there are better suggestions: (need to get this soil started with plants as soon as possible - hopefully within the next 2-3 weeks max outside time. Because of this I don't have much if any time for the soil to "cook". Because of this i understand the alfalfa meal way have too much nitrogen in it and make it a bit hot without cooking so I was going to hold the alfalfa meal back and use it later on as a topdress and in kelp,alfalfa, ewc teas. If i'm wrong please correct me! 90 gals soil (90gal = 12cf) 1:1:1: mix - 4 cf feet of EACH SOIL BASE: 4cf 4 cf Happy Frog (2 bags) HUMUS: 4cf 1 cf cow manure (1 bag) 2 cf chicken manure (2 bags) 1 cf EWC (1 bag) AERATION: 4ct 1 cf pumice 3 - 4 cf of perlite as needed AMENDMENTS: 12 cups neem 24 cups kelp meal 6 cups crab meal 6 cups shrimp meal 6 cups gypsum 6 cups azomite ???? biochar (i see 6-8 cups per cf.recommended, that would be 96 cups lets say. should I just do the full 1 cf bag??) Alfalfa meal (holding out of mix and will use as a top dressing and in teas) Am I calculating this right??? 90 gals total and I'm only actually using 2 bags of base?? I know it's the humus part thats important but my brain is overthinking everything and now I'm doubting all my calculations. and the biochar.... is that really an amendment item or should that be factored in as aeration instead, reducing the perlite? EDIT: yeah, i added the manure in the humus - if it ends up stinking I'll be divorced and homeless... lol
*I'd* really rethink all that manure period. Indoors especially, the chicken is really pungent even just sitting in the bag. Plus, I've found mixing too much into the mix just doesn't work all that well for me and I mostly add it by light top dressings. Too much in the mix really messes up the aeration and drainage even with the 40% perlite I normally add. I would also suggest cutting the kelp meal by half down to 1cup/cf max. For me, it also works better with light top dressings every couple weeks and you don't risk lockouts from too much K all at once. The original recipe I used just called for 1/2cup/cf to give you an idea (LC's #1 mix). The worms in the fresh VC used go a long way in getting all these top dresses broken down and distributed. In fact, starting a worm bin is about the most significant thing you can do for any sort of organic growing and should be a #1 priority. Wet
and I added the manure back in because others were saying it wasn't that bad smell wise and every thread stresses how important the compost is to the soil. The compost was the less expensive items I bought and if I'm better off leaving them out I will and save them for outside in the summer... but I hate to not use them at all even if in much smaller quantities if the soil would really benefit significantly enough by them. same on the doubling on the kelp meal... only factored it in that way because I saw in other threads they did the same because the kelp meal was that good for the soil. I can cut it back to 1 cup per cf vs 2 and always top dress with it later on. you know, I have all the soil bags, compost bags, etc sitting here in the house. no smell in the bags at normal temps. only way to know how bad it would be I'm thinking is make a small scale of mix--- maybe one dixie cup as a simple single measurement size and add one cup combo of the chicken manure, cow manure, and EWC, one cup of the happy frog, some perlite to bring it to correct aeration consistensity, than wet it like a full drench and see how smelly it might get or not......
I think your mix looks good. I would add some lime so that you have a good long term source of calcium and magnesium. 1/2 to 1 cup per cu ft of total mix is plenty. (Little known fact, lime helps control smells as well ie manure or fish.) Typically with happy frog, its probably not needed for pH buffering, but I would use it anyway. I use lime with leaf mold. The bags of composted manure really don't smell in my opinion, when added to a soil mix. cheers os
I originally planned in lime but took it out of the mix figuring it might not have been needed because in a number of threads I saw mixes without lime but supposably the calcium in the crustacean meals was doing the same job as the dolomite lime. I have the lime so can easily add it back into the mix.