Well, well I can't say that this isn't a dull thread. Honestly neither one of us will ever change the others opinion and that's perfectly fine. I just wanted to see some thoughts about it. One of my views towards atheists is that it takes more strength to believe in something you cannot fully see than it does to deny it's existence (a somewhat argumentative sounding stance but I don't mean it negatively.) Now, coming from that, the word faith was scrutinized. I can somewhat see where that is developed. Also, towards flamers, fuck off, I've heard your shit before. I would like to hear a bit more debates coming from the atheists perspective as I have heard many about how the world has many cruel places on it and how can a "loving God" have created a place with such pain. I often respond to this by asking where 'said atheist' has aqquired there sense of morals? I mean did God and religion not found the basis of morals in society? And how can you state something is evil or good without morals.(if I am being ignorant right about now, slaughter me for it.) Also, towards that argument, we live in an imperfect world, Eden fell as a result of our human imperfection. Also here is a quote from the bible, it will probably be disregarded by most but... Ah well... "I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us" (Romans 8:18)
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I am fully aware of the conflict in Ireland, Scotland and throughout much of the world, much of it due to religious views. But think about it, there is good and evil within all of us. I would call it the devil and God within all of us, and wouldn't you rather have something than nothing? I've stated above that we are imperfect. That conflict, lust, and hate thrives within all of us, but doesn't love also? If you have ever made love to a woman, a woman you love, hell, if you have ever loved anyone. You know how that feels. I can safetly say that I have beaten the shit out of people because of whatever reason, and it feels so much better to love than to hate. I may sound like a black lady but "tha's just the devil." I see God in us when I see our potential to love. With this love we can do anything, we can go anywhere and create so much more than hate breaks down. It's just how it is man, that's how I feel about it anyway. No one of us truly knows. None of us barely know what is even going on outside of this planet, much less this galaxy. We could all be being watched, studied by some dominant race that has created us to toy with. But I believe in a loving God. And a hateful devil exists as well.
Yeah man, I was best friends with and dated a future astrologist for 2 years. There is certainly a mind blowing amount of space. So much that we cannot even begin to comprehend. It stretchs forever, think out it, what could have ever started this? The big bang? Well if you do some research, you'll find out that around 13 billion years ago(as our ignorant heads can guess) a singularity accured. Do you know what a singularity is? No. Because no one does. The best we can guess is that it had something to do with a shit ton or matter and a black hole. We basically know nothing. The world is extremely insignificant in the whole scheme of things, but even so. I could ask what was there before that singularity errupted? What was before the big bang? And what made it happen? To me the answer is a God, to you, I don't know.
If i had to classify myself in a religion, which i hate doing, it would be more towards an Americany Buddhism, and a listener (not a follower) of the Dalai Lama.
i think that every person has the right to have whatever religion they want, believe whatever crazy stories they want, but as long as they dont push it on others. And i don't think we should give major religious organizations as much power as we do. The Vatican is way out of control and i think that the pope and all of the other priests involved with this child molesting thing should be thrown in prison. Just because he's the pope, doesnt mean he can break the law and help people get away with molesting kids.
Ill debate with you. Ill debate with anyone about religion till the end of time. I love winning;D It takes more strength to believe in something you cannot fully see than it does to deny it's existence? Not the concept of god. I would rather everything be happy-go-lucky and us to salvation or whatnot.. but its not. And I accept it. We die and rot. Its how the world works. That takes more strength which is why 99% of the worlds population is religious in some sort. That 1% is the people who have the strength to embrace reality. ------------------- I mean did God and religion not found the basis of morals in society? No. Humans created it. We created the story of god. We created everything on our own. God doesn't control how we act. We do. And all religions are different so you comparing them saying they produce the same morals in society would be incorrect anyways. ------------------ And how can you state something is evil or good without morals? morality,good,bad,and ethics are all deep philosophical discussions in their own.. so using all 4 in sentence can lead to endless debates. Pretty much, you know what is good and right. Morals are formed from centuries of humans interacting in their own way.. and it leads up to your modern world. I could argue about endless stuff to do with religion. Im just countering yours for now.
I agree about the power struggle with religious organizations. And for the whole pope thing, I'm not catholic, I'm Presbyterian or methodist. However, I am kind of losing hope in a lot of the churches.
Tis true. Good counter arguments. I've actually never heard of the 1% who come to terms with reality part. Quite insightive, and I believe in God and will for the rest of my life. It's my choice, it is a lifestyle, I do not force it upon others, and if it turns out that when I close my eyes and take that last breath that I do not begin my accent in heaven, or hell and everything stays black, well, I can say that I lived for something.
its not a lifestyle. It was forced upon you by today's world. And you wouldnt have lived for something. It would be the worst thing to live for. Its a lie(in my opinion,and nearly is a fact.) its the biggest joke played on humanity. edit:talking about religion. not god because obviously no one knows.
I do not believe that there is a supreme creator that exists outside of our universe or a separate entity that is in control of the destiny of the universe. I believe that the universe is it's own god, and the act of simply existing allows something to exercise it's own purpose. Through cause and effect and the infinitely complex relations that occur in our universe we are met with a natural order and chaotic pattern of progression and change. There is nothing outside the system, there is no one or no 'thing' pulling the strings. The strings are pulling themselves....
Perhaps it is a lie, and not completely a lifestyle. I believe there is a God, there are many problems with religion. But I choose to follow it, I respect you and your outlook on religion. I'm losing faith in many organized religions though. The church I attend has lost it's way, in some ways many churches have. Many religions have also.
At least you realize something;D All i can say is, do some research. Just read around on different views and topics. youll learn more
I agree with this. I specially doubt the existence of a god like the one described in the bible, a god that is able to reason, to judge, love, experience anger, jealousy etc <---- all part of the human experience/behavior. It looks like humans created "god" in their own image, not vice-versa. this is the one thing that really bothers me about the christian god (the one that I am more familiar with): keeping in mind that the god is omnipotent, all knowing, and that everything is "made" by him, then did he not expect that one of his angels (the devil) was going to rebel against him? did he not expect that "adam and eve" were going to disobey him? if god is all, then he is all the "good", and all the "evil", which too, are notions experienced by humans, who then, attributed them to "god" op you seem like a very tolerant person, props for that
Does the sex and weed bother you? I'm in the exact same positon...honestly it bothers me and my lady and i talk about it all the time. we're eachothers firsts and only an im gonna marry her soon, but it still bothers me....i do agree with the fact that God's creation is Good. At the beginning "and he saw that it was good...except for cannabis where He said oh shoot that should be illegal" NO i dont think so!! Its just human's abuse which has made this happen...along with other things... does your lifestyle bother your conscience? I'm not going to judge, as much as i tell everybody i'm okay with it, i can admit on these e-boards that i'm still bothered because what i do is still against the law...
1. The big bang was the beginning of space and time. So "before" (if it even exists), has a completely different meaning. 2. It's also wrong to automatically assume that the big bang was caused by something. And if everything is in fact, caused by something... why is your god exempt? 3. And even if there is something that caused the big bang is still doesnt meant that the causer is "God". And it certainly doesnt show that it is the all-knowing, all-powerful, judgmental christian god.
Hmm I find more comfort in the fact that there is a Creator which made creation to mirror his nature: infinite. The planets size, the sands and stars, the atoms, molecules, the brain pathways, the cell structures. All so perfectly working together to form a tree, a glass of water, a beach. This is a God! Come on, a big bang could line up the planets so that we get a perfect 4 seasons, millions of miles from a glowing ball? Really? one millionth of a tenth of a degree and we'd be toasted and frozen twice a year ahhahaha and a "big bang" or "grand start" is just as improvable as this "God'' which you say isn't. Sure, I can't hold up a picture and say "look its God" but look at his creation! Fibonacci's number, the concept of infinity and eternity which we can't even grasp. If you can fully understand your "god" then he is not worth your Worship; he is as frail as your mind. I have faith in my God, and myself as his creature. I am called to worship and call others to worship, that's my life. Not to tweak my mind to enjoy 80 years as much as i can. In the end, I can see neither of us is going to convince the other hahahahaha
just because you cant understand or fathom it doesn't mean its real. you find comfort in that? well brilliant, well fucking done, i prefer facts myself. people believe in god because they need to find the meaning of life. there is none. we eat, mate, feed, kill. i find it hard to believe that in 2010 people still believe in god, when we have all the facts and knowledge we need. do you believe the world is flat or was that something the christians decided to drop from the list of things they believe and that people though were rational thousands of years ago.
ALright, fact me to death, and not just numbers, but the real concepts. Lets start with how things began. And i'm a little stupid so you're going to have to use real proven examples so lets not hear the worth "theory" or 13.5 billion years, because we all know that no matter how hard you can make precise angular measures, the percentage of error becomes exponential. A fact can be precise, yet terribly inaccurate. Start me off with your atheism, which is younger than this country
Even if the chances were 1 in a billion there would still be a least a billion planets in the same "habitable zone" that we enjoy. You dont seem to realize that our universe is extremely vast. no its not... the big bang theory is very plausible and was discovered by astronomers realizing that everything is moving away from us... its even estimated to have occurred around 13 billion years ago