religion is the same as thinking vanilla ice cream tastes good.

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by iamwaterproof, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. I've struggled with my beliefs throughout my life. I was baptized catholic, raised christian, and attended church occasionally throughout adolescence. However, I was the only child of three who never made first communion for lack of sunday school enrollment. It just never happened.
    But, I've constantly thought about it throughout life and have come to this personal view.
    Religion is merely a means for hope and sometimes purpose. Those who are very religious (I'm talking the born-again-christian types) make it almost a personal vendetta to shove their views down the throat of anybody who will listen, and thrash the mindset of anyone who disagrees. It's almost as if they have no other purpose but to spit the word of the bible after every sentence. and almost everyone of this nature I meet is the same way. they might carry on other aspects of life, but the religious part takes up so much of  the personality it is overwhelming to those who meet them. they see religion as a purpose to live basically and owe their life to the savior and his father.
    Then it seems there's another type of person of religion, where it doesn't consume them, but they go to church on important occasions and use religion when they need it. they pray in times of terror or hopefulness, commit some sins without confessing, take the lord's name in vain, they don't know the scripture's by heart, and may not have even read the whole bible, but religion is there when they need it. it's a crutch for when life breaks a leg. it seems that hospital walls have heard more prayers than those of a church.
    Now modern schooling has led me to believe the theory of evolution, there's no doubt in my mind. and I've done personal research of various faiths, and none of them have been able to convince me to believe there is in fact a higher being. god is said to be omniscient (all knowing), omnibenevolent (all that is good), and omnipotent (all powerful).
    all powerful. this means god is able to do anything. 
    except, could god create a rock so heavy that even god could not lift it?
    objective - observers/subject are/is independent; truth value of a objective claim is independent of what anyone thinks of it; 
    example: the sun is the center of our solar system.
    subjective - observer/subject are/is dependent; the truth value of a subjective claim is dependent upon the personal feeling/attitudes of the observer/subject
    example: vanilla ice cream taste good.
    and obviously for something to be moral, it must be objective.
    all that is good; but what is good? what is moral? in monotheistic and polytheistic religion, pious is synonymous with moral.
    using euthyphro's question, "is it pleasing to [god] because it is pious? or is it pious because it is pleasing to [god]?"
    well, if one statement is true, the second must be false.
    if the first is true, "it is pleasing to god because it is pious", then that implies there is a being even greater than god making it pious or moral. so that can't be true.
    if the second is true, "it is pious because it is pleasing to god", then this is even worse. because that just makes all matters subjective. it's not right because it is moral.
    it's the same as god thinking vanilla ice cream tastes good so, therefore, everyone should think so.
    thoughts? criticisms? agreements? arguments? :)

  2. #2 guest30011140, Feb 13, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
    I think the problem a religious person would have with most of your argument is that with a spiritual force, anything is possible. So to say can God make a rock to heavy to lift? What is a rock? What does "lift" mean? You are using human utterances to describe the un-human (different than inhumane hahaha). I just believe in the power of beliefs. If you believe evolution is real, in your reality, it is real.
  3. The language doesn't matter at all.  That's a red herring people use to run away from the paradox created in their own belief system.  If your "spiritual force" has power available to it to accomplish all things, then one of those things should be to invent a task that even it could not accomplish.  In order to remain all powerful, it must be able to create a task that it could not accomplish, and also accomplish the task it created, both without failing in either task.  Succeeding in one fails the other.  In either outcome there is something that is possible that it cannot accomplish.
    If it were enough for the religious to say "my god is more powerful than everything" then you wouldn't have this problem, but it's not.  They always have to say "my god has all the power and can do everything."  So then the question is, then why is it so easy for mere mortals to imagine something it cannot do?  These myths weren't created for thinkers.  You're not supposed to question them, because otherwise the senselessness of the fiction becomes clear.
  4. It is a mistake to evaluate spiritual (or any extra-physical) sources of power using the laws of physics. There are a great many things in this world that have enormous amounts of power, but have no physical existence. 
    For the sake this argument, I define Power as the capacity to affect change in the world. (Similar to the definition in physics)
    For aesthetic reasons, I also call all extra-physical sources of power 'magic'.
    So one very pronounced example of human magic (i.e. an extra-physical force capable of affecting change) is money.
    Money has absolutely no physical existence, yet it has the capacity to cause people to do any number of things. Money is nothing more than an idea that we all agree to believe in (knowing full-well that it is not real).
    I am not offering this as proof of any particular tenet of any particular code. Rather I am simply saying that attacking religion from the perspective that it is not logically consistent is missing the point of religion.
  5. Vanilla ice cream is totally good. 
  6. not at all........

    you know...contrary to the popular belief. Vanilla isn't's actually a flavor, WHO KNEW, RIGHT?!?!?
  7. #7 -13 Amp-, Feb 15, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2014
    Money IS a physical thing, its coins or banknotes, you can hold it, smell it, taste it etc...its the worth that's the idea
  8. religion is nothing but THIS....

    get ready.

    A Concept, that is not felt.....well Truly felt in the soul. It is simply TAUGHT by those that brought you up, be it driven into your head to the point you hate the idea, or not talked about at all. It's an Idea, a Tradition, it varies simply based on location.

    People really delve into this all too far. Religion is a crutch for those that cannot Truly believe in Themselves. You're God, They're God, I'm God. Welcome to Earth and Life. Enjoy your life as your own God.

    its that simple honestly...
  9. #9 BigNugDoug, Feb 15, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
    however I am highly spiritual in my own way.
    I'm gonna say something crazy and compare religion to weed.  The thought of this make me cringe hahaha. Please don't hate me.  I'm freshly vaped right now. :D  So..... hard..... must..... keep..... typing.
    Religion is like weed.  It can be a beautiful thing if used properly.  So enlightening and refreshing to the soul.  It can bring positive vibes and bring people together.  However not everyone knows how to use it properly.  It's obvious which one is more extreme and can be worse but I just thought it's a funny comparison.  I don't hate anyone who gains joy in their life from which ever religion they chose(or got force fed).  Just don't try to push that shit on me.
    If you think about it a religious person trying to shove their religion on you is no worse than a pothead shoving counter culture, sub culture, cannabis culture whatever you wanna call it, down people throats and in their faces.
    *edit* I fuckin love vanilla ice cream.
  10. I'm not religious, but vanilla ice cream is delicious.
  11. no it isn't. There is no actual physical attribute that distinguishes two bills of different value. You cannot use physical characteristics to explain why a $10 bill is different than a $20 bill. You need non-physical ideas such as the abstract notion of money and the notion that the shape of the ink (i.e. the number 10) means something different when it is shaped like the number 20. 
  12. ya but the laws of physics comes from every day from reality.concepts don't have the power to affect change in the universe simply because it has no temporal qualities in a physical sense.physical objects create representations to allow the emergence of concepts.To have power to change in the world is to imply it is physically embodied. Concepts are powerless and must always rely on some form of physical process.such as language requiring ears,eyes or touch.

    Sent from my ME173X using Grasscity Forum mobile app
  13. I sure wish I could believe in some faith... life sucks when it has no purpose or meaning...
  14. #14 -13 Amp-, Feb 15, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2014
    how do we determine physical things? with our senses, touch, see, smell, taste etc

    Money has different colors, pictures and symbols on them that differentiate between the denominations of bills, some bills and coins are different sizes, and in coins some weigh more than others and also different materials and pictures on them....and when you say you can't hold them and tell, that CAN be done by just touch, blind people can count money by the feel....

    Now whether or not you believe that nickle is worth 5 cent is where the "faith" comes in...but you can very well tell the difference between a nickle and a dime...

    and before you run off saying color isn't, color can be created and barring problems with your eye will be seen the same by other people (blue is blue) and light is reflected and creates color, again can be created and is seen the same by everyone that doesn't have a problem with their vision
  15. A great many physical forces rely on conceptual ones as well. That is, human will must set those physical forces into action. I quite agree that they are woven together, however the fact that the physical and non-physical are linked does not imply that they cannot be independently considered.
    The vast majority of monetary transactions do not involve a physical movement of cash. Information processing systems ( computers) simply change the idea that they had of the monetary system.
  17. I mean I like vanilla ice cream and I'm not sure how ice cream fits into this metaphor.. And there are variations of vanilla ice cream like religions, so even if you aren't religious, you can appreciate and enjoy all the types of vanilla there are in the world!!

    I think I lost myself in thought but yeah, everything is subjective, man. Yes religion takes up a lot of space in people's lives, but unless we can actually be in their shoes, no human can judge another for their personal belief. It is as real to them as air, and while I don't believe in a jesus or holy ghouls, I believe that since the universe delivers thought into material, there are real things that happen thanks to whatever god people put so much positive thought into. Yes there are those who use the word of god for hate, but it is obvious that they aren't in the right place. 
    The thing about getting over religion is also coming to terms with learning not to judge based on faith just as you don't want to be judged for lack of it. I believe the earth is a driving force in life, and the universe around us, if people wanna call it "jesus" or whatever then go ahead.
  18. Vannilla ice cream is good
    Also chocolate and other flavors are good
    But religions is mostly hogwash

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