My first question is do you believe the bible is to be taken metaphorically? -If it is supposed to be taken literally then if god created the universe in 7 days, adam and eve on the 6th when were dinosaurs around? -If it isn't supposed to be taken literally, then was Jesus just a medicine man in a village that was the best around and people thought god sent him to save us? -If it is supposed to be taken literally, moses lived several hundred years old, were there calenders different back then? Were 12 months our time 2 seasons their time? -If to be taken literally, in Genesis idk what chapter or verse, god killed the first born Egyptian in a certain town "because they weren't christian." The scientific reason is that this town is near a certain lake that gives off toxic gasses every so many years and the first borns always slept on the floor of the huts. The first born were killed because the gas traveled low and never killed anyone elevated off of the ground. -If to be taken literally, the 40 day/40 night flood, how did they know the world was flooded? If the "Christian god" is a loving god why did he destroy the earth instead of work with "prophets" in making it better. Remember, god is all powerful? Man would argue my last point by saying god will not go against human will, etc. etc. -If god will not go against human will then how come there are failed suicide attempts? Whatever happened to divine destiny anyways? Doesn't god have a plan for us anyways no matter what you do? I want a decent debate/ discussion, no flaming. I want intellectual reasoning, no one coming in here with 1-2 word replies. My main question is, how could the bible be real with all of these errors in it? (it is god's book anyways is it not?)
The bible is the one most mis-translated and misinterpreted piece of literature in the entire history of man. Some christians take the bible literally while most think of the bible as stories told to teach a moral lesson. To me, the bible is not meant to be taken literally and there are a lot of loose ends, but it is still a good read.
I'm not a Christian, but my general view on the bible is that its original purpose was to be a text explaining the paradoxical nature of Nature through ambiguous tales that could only be properly interpreted through deep study and reflection under the influence of marijuana, as the inner-workings of the universe are too difficult to properly articulate in a literal sense.
In my opinion all religions are just plain scared influenced ignorance. I mean sure they might provide a false sense of security, give you something to do, answer unanswerable questions, but really its all a false reality. Lets go ahead and assume for a minute that there is a god. Would god really care more about humans than any other living creature in existence? Would god really give two shits if you didn't obey his every command to a T? If he cares that much then fuck him anyways. Sounds to me like hes a dick and I wouldn't want to spend my (if there was/is one) afterlife with him in "heaven" because being around such a cunt wouldn't be any better than eternal damnation. Lets also look at the fact that there are several religions all with diferent beliefs and ideas. They can't all be right, so which one is it? I mean come on, whoever is right gets a good pay off huh? While the other religions are all fucked, while this entire time they thought they were getting off scott free. Wait, maybe god will reward the religions who were wrong with an E for effort? Naw according to all these religions hes far to much of an asshole to do that. Is god alone, no other gods to play a game of cards? Or do all of the gods from each religion exist and they get together for poker night at each others residences? In my opinion if there is a god, he doesn't give two shits about what we do, he doesn't care if I fuck a goat or stick a fork up my ass. If god is as great as we think he is than I'm sure hes smart enough to know that unless he proves himself more evidently than some old ass book that a lot of people won't believe. Theres where you get people telling you they don't need proof, just their faith which just about drives me nuts. Faith, man what a concept that is huh?
The last partout god not caring what you do I agree with. I believe that god started the world whether he created the big bang, and put the world into motion. God isn't classified directly as an invisible spooky man somewhere, god could be an atomic molecule? Atoms the basis of life the beginning and the end. ^^ think about that last part scientifically. You might want to look into the religion "deism."
Wrong wrong wrong... The Bible you hold in your hands today is very close to the original manuscripts. Do a little research such as the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' which predate Christ. They are almost identical to todays old testament. Many of the gospels from the early AD period are in existence and back up todays translations.
Diesm is cool and all, but I'm still in question of a greater being creating all of existence. At least diesm doesn't think I should burn in hell for not knowing the truth, and questioning my surroundings.
If 'god' is an atomic molecule is it really a 'god'. As we define it today? That's like saying 'god is love', it's good and all but really it doesn't make sense. It's not a god anymore, it's a new definition of a god A god can be anything if we follow this line of thinking
if you sit back and think long and hard about religion, you will realize that it is complete bullshit. Even if christians are right, the entire religion has for sure been morally corrupted. Knowing humans, we cant have something without pulling the strings to suit it for our own greedy agendas
Well, you have the king James version of the bible where he took out and added scriptures that he and only he wanted in there. Brief History of the King James Bible by Dr. Laurence M. Vance To everyone else, I really enjoy the replies. Mizled: God could be anything, or nothing. God could be an atom, he could be some spooky man sitting on another dimension, he could be a golden cow. Who knows what he is, some believe god is a cow, a man that walked on water, and until we have evidence of what god is, if there is a god, you can easily say he is "love" or an "atom."
Then that redefines the concept of a god from being something with will and intent into an inanimate thing or idea. Why bother calling it a god?
Hmm I know most do not take the Bible literally and to do so would be silly in my opinion. I think there are many different views you can take on the bible and religion as a whole. Please recognize though the difference between organized religion and spirituality. Everyone knows Christianity as an organized religion has been full of corruption. Anyways, here are some random ideas that I have If you were confined to a box and never saw another human or anything else in the world, wouldn't you naturally wonder how life started and what/who created you and everything around you? So I think it's important to embrace spirituality because its not bullshit. Whenever I think of this it kinda blows my mind but Ill try to put it in words. What else is there besides the universe? Where does it end and once it ends then what? Also scientists still haven't figured out what made atoms and proton/electrons/neutrons. What existed before anything? Something had to have existed to create the first things ever and to create itself which is impossible to comprehend. I'm sorry I cannot explain AT ALL but maybe some of you have followed this thought process. For those who think the Bible has "errors" in it... Its not a history book and has never claimed to be. If its not a history book what errors can there be? The reason there are events in the Bible that relate to history because the authors put them in because they were facing those problems, to have a backdrop, or they put it in to make it seem more authentic to readers. If you read the gospels they all have mostly the same events but all have different details. Doesn't that make it more authentic considering everyone has different sources and accounts? If it was fabricated wouldn't it just be the same details exactly? Also there is a book scholars have yet to find that is called the "Q" source which appears to be some scripture or a collection of Jesus' exact words and throughout the gospels they quote it word for word. I think the Bible has many many many different teachings but if you want to take it to a VERY basic level, it is just a good guideline to life, I mean it has some good rules right in it. Think of it like a handbook that helps you out. BUT some critics will say, oh well it says that you can have slaves and that is inhumane and blah blah and women are treated like crap. Well, this is where you must think outside of it and take into context the cultural surroundings of the authors. IF you were a man in Egypt in 3000BC, the concept of slaves being inhumane just is incomprehensible. Also throughout the Bible women are portrayed as whores sometimes although later they play a crucial roll. some of the Bible writers were the first to embrace the ideas that we have today, although not the the full extent. I mean was it not a woman/women who uncovered Jesus' tomb? Was it not Mary who followed Jesus until his final moment? Women were often the most forgiving and loving to Jesus. So critics must take the cultural surrounds into context before pointing out the flaws. OH and what is God? Well to be honest if your looking for proof you are not going to find it. If there was proof everyone would embrace God. If there was proof there would be no faith, right? Hmm I was once told this... Everyone experiences love, whether it be a girlfriend or the love form your mother or father. Well, show me love please... Can you bottle some love up? Can you show me the scientific proof of "love"? No you can't... but does that mean it doesn't exist? ^^^ Something to think about I guess I'm sorry I get into a topic and forget what the original topic was about.... I hope this maybe clears a little up or sheds a little light on the Bible and I'd love to answer any questions. Haha I've been reading these forums for a while whenever I'm bored or high... and this question made me register and give a reply haha so thank you.
Dude that's great, I like your example about love and god. I would just say the bible is more metaphorical texts about how you should live your life. Like you said, a guideline. There are also a lot of bible scriptures that contradict themselves. A List Of Biblical Contradictions
Ah yes there are many contradiction and I want to thank you for your response to my post. As you will see a lot of the God of war stuff is coming form the Hebrew Scriptures. Again, you must take the cultural surroundings into context. Back then the purpose was to have a powerful God that could crush all other Gods. The first Israelites were Henotheistic (so they believed all the other Gods existed) and wanted to show all the other religions that there God was the most powerful. Hence, the biblical authors made their God so. I dont remember what religion, but the way their God created the world was that there was a huge dual between two Gods that lasted an incomprehensible amount of time. Basically it ended with one dying and its corpse turning into the Earth or something to that extent. Dont quote me on it haha. The biblical authors said " Hey our God went ' There shall be light' and Boom the Earth was created out of nothing." Doesn't that God seem a little more divine and powerful? So they wanted to show everyone else....yeah check this shit out! Our God made the Earth in 7 days! Some contradictions such as slavery being accepted and not are a direct result of cultural surroundings and you cant just edit something out...although its been tried hehe Also most of the contradictions come with the gospels, and I'm not sure if it was in my last post or in the other Third Eye thread, but they were there to make it seem genuine. If the stores are EXACTLY the same it seems scripted and that they planned it out. In reality, they were mostly written at different times and at different places on Earth. Damn it another unintentionally long post
You seem incredibly intelligent in this field. I really see your pov (point of view) on how the bible should be translated by the time zones and what not. Most preachers and my parents don't clarify the bible in that manner, but instead say to take it literally which is what I have always questioned.
Well, I love the subject and am glad to have had great teachers in the past that didn't bullshit us about the Bible. Its a totally different experience being taught by a Harvard Divinity grad with a scholarly outlook opposed to a regular teacher who just doesn't have the knowledge and is reading out of some Christian school book. Regular teachers often just focus on corny stuff like how much Jesus loves us. Or they will ignore the flaws and problems and dismiss them.
I'm a Christian. I think the Bible should be believed as true 'as far as it is translated correctly'. That being said, some things in the Bible might have been time limited, because humanity didn't have the knowledge that we have today. Back then the vocabulary was very limited compared to the languages of today. So I believe that some of the ideals of the Bible would a bit simplistic, something that a child could understand, but throughout the many translations it has adversely effected the original intended messages. How could God, a timeless entity explain his doings in 'time'? For all we know, 7 days in God's time according to the amount of work being done equaled something more like billions of years in our time. It's hard not to take the story of Jesus seriously when you account for our calendar year. An entire earths population wouldn't be sitting in the year 2009 for nothing. It's been two thousand and nine years since his presence on this planet. If it didn't happen, then why are we still counting the days? Seems a bit redundant for a planet's population to count the days since an event in time if it never actually happened. Think about it...... Actually, it's not that humans lived for long periods of time in ancient history, but that in the present day we live very short lives. Maybe theres an explanation for this? Just a guess. If everything in time and reality was originally created by God, than it is accurate to say that every event taking place on earth is still an act of God, even if indirectly. The story is that the earth had become evil, and the word of God was being trashed. I believe that if the earth was full of mostly hateful, un Godly people who worshiped themselves today, than we would probably be wiped out again. If you choose to kill yourself, I doubt God will stand in the way. I also doubt that God has total and direct influence in your life unless you want him to. So if you consider yourself a Godless person, you have denied God. Don't expect any help. A Godless person is pretty much on their own, left to deal with life by yourself, and don't expect God to appear at your bedside to prove his existence. Just a guess, but this is how I view it. I think being able to find God in all of this mess without the physical proof is exactly what is expected of us. If it were too simple to prove and visibly logical that God is real than everyone would simply believe. It would be too easy, what would be the point of life?
1- What about the kind James version where he corruptly took out and added scriptures that he wanted? That isn't limited vocabulary, that is deliberately changing things around so people would be more inclined to believe it right? Where is the full truth, we want the 100% if this determines "heaven" and "hell." Also, if the language could be messing this stuff up, would you trust your eternity with it? Let's say some one comes up to me speaking German, and tells me a car will come flying down 23rd street and explode at 1. Knowing very little German I do, that is what I go out of it, however, he might have said a car will come down 23rd street at 1 giving out 1 million dollars. Can you trust something that can't be translated perfectly? This is the difference in heaven and hell, there are 10,000+ religions out there, you should want the one that is atleast translated correctly right? That's a good start. 2- That is basically answering my original question, can the bible be taken literally? no. 3- Jesus, some say could metaphorically be used as the sun and time. Think about that, the time is based around the sun right? Well, dates are based around the "son" well, son and sun are alike, and like you said with translations maybe some one messed up god forbid dooming us all to hell because we aren't believing in the right of 10,000. 4- The explanation for this would be viruses and bacteria mutating and becoming more powerful. 5- Or god could have just wound the world up like a watch and abandoned it, god doesn't influence what happens in the world. 6 - What about the babies, aren't they "saved"? Why did god kill helpless babies that still had "free will" and could have turned the world around? (and if so, what about babies that were born into a muslim family and determined to be islamic their entire life?) Well, if god won't have influence on someone commiting suicide, then what about the people that the bullet just barely misses their temple that would kill them, was it "an act of god" or just sheer coincidence that they had that extra cup of milk as a kid that built the calcium in their skull up? Finding god, yes. However I don't think the point of life is flipping a coin between heaven and hell, that isn't life, that is eternity remember? I don't want to play russian roulette with eternity.