I'm trying to work out the watering and soil details of my first indoor grow. I want to use a coco medium with an automated (and self-supporting for up to a week), recirculating hydro system. Ideally it will be a drip system, with organic nutrients built into the medium as far as possible (rather than the reservoir), and supplemented with teas as required. I need to know whether all this is going to work together. Can I add (preferably organic) nutrients to the medium and still use a recirculating hydro system? What sort of problems will I have, and how can I amend my plan so that I CAN use coco with an automated, recirculating drip system? Thanks in advance for any help, this is all very new and my head feels like it will explode with all the reading and thinking I've done...
Hey there SMT...I'm here with you bro but I have to go run some errands and TCB this morning. But you have me noodling with your challenge and I'm gonna brainstorm some and share some dialog with you. Be back soon....
The problem I see is that the TDS and ppm of the solution would change quickly requiring frequent updates to the nutrients in the system. Ultimately, I don't think recirculating is the right way to go. You can do a few short waterings every day if you run a pump on a timer. Keep the volume of solution added in line with the plant's needs and it will keep the media moist for a long period of time. Occasionally you could water by hand to run-off as well, perhaps once a week doing a light feeding in that way to rinse the media a little. I'm not saying recirculating won't work but coco is kinda dirty stuff. You need to consider clogged lines and pumps and filters, especially with organics you'd need to be running really huge lines to each plant. Personally I'd do a more drain to waste system (without much if any drain) because I'd be afraid of a clogged line and a flooded room or faulty equipment. Even in a system that could go a week I'd still at least check it daily to monitor nutrient levels and pH at the minimum. But... To answer your question... I think that you should use plenty of perlite in the coco mix. Maybe up to a 50/50 ratio, or by doing 20% perlite in the mix but with the bottom inch or two of the planter being 100% perlite. This will allow for the kind of drainage and high air levels (coco's air levels are high, but not hydroton or perlite high) the roots will need with that kind of constant drip. I think I'd go with the inch of perlite at the bottom of a 10 - 12 liter planter and then do a 2:1 coco to perlite mix. I don't think I'd amend organics because I figure they could just wash out, so I'd make sure to run a complete bio-supplementation line with all the healthy micro-organisms in the solution.
Looking forward to it... Thanks for your reply . My preference is for a recirculating (because ready access to fresh water (and a drain/ the garden for recycling) is difficult) hydro system. You are saying even that much is difficult with coco? I think the idea of a bottom layer of perlite is a good one (and I was planning a coco / perlite mix anyway, if I can have frequent automatic waterings) because it will also act as a filter for coco particles, right? Would root growth into that layer help retain the coco too? What about a layer of perlite and/or hydroton, and/or a sheet of flyscreen etc as a screen below the pots, in the drain tray? I have an irrigation timer that can be set to as low as one minute (I'd love a seconds timer, but I have to work with what I have and can afford), and I guess with a low flow rate that will suffice to provide enough water as required. Your idea of a "to waste" system with very little "waste" is a good one, and has me thinking. My preference regarding nutrients is to avoid expensive commercial preparations where practical, for reasons of cost and because I'd like to know what goes into my plants, and not least, because I really like being able to learn what works and why. So let's say I run a drain to (not much) waste (low water) hydro system, with coco/perlite as the medium; how do I feed it without just using some "part A / part B" formulation?
SMT, what's your budget for this project and do you have an electrical outlet (obviously you do) to plug another device in?
I misunderstood your design intent. I was thinking that you just wanted a way to apply "water-only" to an organic soil mix using coco (about 30%) in the medium of moss, perlite, dry nutes, etc. Thus giving you a "water-only" grow solution. You know, plant it and go on vacation for a week without worrying about the plants drying out. If you're going to a modified version of hydro/DWC etc. I think 2lsc identified the challenge you'll have - TDS. It's going to flucuate, perhaps wildly, with nutrient uptake. That being the case I won't be able to offer you much in the way of design but I can offer you lot's of encouragement!!!! So, this is not "water-only"...correct?
It might be... That's all I'm saying. Just be prepared to filter everything and check your filters often. Perlite won't filter out much coco but it should keep the coco far away from the drain holes which should help with drainage. The root growth will definitely fill in the area and start to prevent coco loss. This got me thinking. You could just use SmartPots. They are fabric pots that don't have drain holes, so no coco loss... problem solved there. Feeding without an A and B system: Go organic. Organicare would probably be a great complete system for you. Bio-Canna Flora with the Canna Nutrients Supplement line would also work well. Even Humboldt Nutrients makes a system that would work well.
I have power, and with only 400W of light (for now) out of a possible max. of 2400W (240V @ 10A), (and maybe, say 2-300W for fans, heater and pumps) I have plenty of headroom. Budget is limited, but i have a 6'x6'x6' tent, 2x400W lights and fittings (1 HPS, 1 MH), 2x 6'' fans, and perlite and coco. I have to get a silencer, carbon filter and ducting this week, and find money for "system" nutes (if that's what it takes, otherwise I have stuff like slow release tomato fertiliser, a BIG bag of Epsom salts, molasses, access to alfalfa (or lucerne, as we call it here)). So what I'm looking for is ideas on how to use and feed and water a coco / perlite medium. Given the number of plants (~40) I have, I'll be using 14cm / 1.65L (5.5'' / 0.44 Gal.) pots simply to fit them under the light. I aim to reduce that after mid-October to get say 1/2 of them flowering and keeping the others in vege under fluros until the first 20 have finished. Then look at selecting some parents from the remainder, and flowering the rest. It's pretty much up in the air at the moment. I'd LIKE to keep it clean and simple, but really have no idea the best way to do that. What I've actually BOUGHT is "coir-peat", which I guess is actually a mix of coco and peat? I've bought the "Easy Wetta" and "Nitrophoska" products here http://www.brunnings.com.au/coir.html . The second gives me the idea that it's usable with slow release fertilisers? I'd prefer to use water and teas, and slow release ferts, rather than a commercial product that is designed for hydroponics but costs an arm and a leg. I really don't have the time to start soil building this time, so the slow release ferts don't need to be organic. What I'd like to do from here is set up a watering system that can keep the plants happy for a week, and it sounds like the idea of a "drain to waste" system can work, as long there's not too much "waste". I guess I'm going to need to flush every couple of weeks anyway whatever I use, so that needs to be considered, but if that's all the dumping I need to do I'm happy. It's a lot easier to add water to the system (via hose) than it is to remove it. My preference is to avoid commercial hydroponic feeding products as much as possible, and relying on pre-mixed slow release ferts is an attempt to do that. I'm realising that going organic with this grow is going to be difficult with that condition, so I think I'll skip it this time. So what I want to know is: Is it going to be ok to use a pre-mixed slow-release fertiliser, with fairly limited flushing and run-off, and using teas and additives (like dolomite and Epsom salts) to supplement deficiencies as they arise?
Rather than quote all the above let me just throw a few things out and see what sticks... my opinion based on what I'm reading you're trying to accomplish. I think I'm beginning to "see the picture" you're painting for us. You've got a great thinking concept going and I'm confident you can pull it off on a McGyver budget. So just some thoughts, use ‘em or lose ‘em. It's all good with me either way. I would plan on an organic soil mix using dry, organic sourced ingredients. There’s plenty of kind folk that’ll help you with putting a recipe together. NO synthetic fertilizers. Going the 100% organic route will immediately reduce your future need of “the flush” and save you some of your hard earned money in the shorter term (longer term too ). Using a soil based organic grow medium will get you through long periods of zero maintenance, you'll never worry about pH, never worry about “nute burn”, a drip irrigation system will keep the plants watered, and any leaching out of the bottom of the container can be easily dealt with. No muss, no fuss. No "chasing the chicken" in a panic trying to figure out what's going wrong with your grow because there won't be much, if anything, that will cause you a problem and get ya to fretting. What could be better than that dream state eh? I would plan on growing your plants out in the .5 gal containers. Meristem only, SOG or SCROG style. Arguably you can flip to 12/12 at 15 – 20 days of growth (third to fifth set of braches) and get them to show their stuff. Earlier I said I flip mine at 30 days on the mark. I’m a firm believer that one can start an indoor grow and harvest in 75 – 90 days (+/- a few days). I grow for personal use and gifting to friends for their “pains” LOL, so “yield” is somewhat important but in priority order for me it’s; #1, overall plant health, all other things second to that. Focus on these 5 things: air, water, medium, light, nutrients. Separately and then weave them together for your grow to fit your needs in your enviornment. Make sense? I will go digging for you for a post that a brother did with a great tutorial for a drip system. I’ve got the design in my memory banks but it’ll be more better for you if I can find the reference. It’s quite detailed and it'll work perfectly for you if you switch your thinking to using an organic soil as your foundation for growing versus any other method given that your need is low-to-no maintenance grow cycle. I'll be back.....
OK, I guess soil is made more worthwhile if I DON'T have to flush the medium! (so that's convincing). I've really gone at this arse about; I had a plan which has had to change radically for various good reasons, but I've been playing catch up a lot in the course of this grow. But that's cool, I'm still learning. In fact, my head is heavy with knowledge... My thinking now is that I will follow your advice: single stem SOG, with some clones taken as mothers and some plants taken to seed. I've found these products online NTS- Organic Agriculture, Sustainable Agriculture, Liquid Fertilisers, Humates, Dry Mineral Fertilisers, Microbe Culturing which may be more affordable as they are not hydro specific, and may well be available through the local produce store. The products with the green squiggle seem to be organically based, if the BFA certification is any guide Biological Farmers Of Australia . Is there anything there that might be worth ordering for this grow? I'm off to check out the LumperDawg knowledge base for ideas about soil building products, hope my head don't explode...
Dude...OMG! You are sitting on a MJ growers chest of "gold doubloons" matey!!! There's so much good stuff on that web site it's going to take me a while to digest it all. Damn! One item that instantly caught my eye is the "nutri-life 4/20".... do ya think?!?! "4/20"....LOL! Cooler than a witches kiss my southern hemisphere friend! Are those products seriously available to you...like on the shelf of a get-n-go store? IDK, but without some further reading on my part, at first glance I don't think you could go wrong with any of their organic products. You are one fortunate son gro-bro! And seriously, with this kind of quality organics at your disposal if you post here that you are putting synthetic nutrients on your grow, well, then you are quite mad sir!!!! LOL! Do THIS the ORGANIC way and you will be H-A-P-P-Y!!!