Organic Hydro?

Hi Goblueth.

First off, as an organic gardener myself, regarding this statement - (or I could settle for "as organic as possible"). You really need to be either organic - or not. There really isnt a "happy medium". We count on, in fact we rely on our soil life to assist us in our gardens. Without this soil life an organic garden would be virtually useless and we might as well go hydro at that point. Its that important.

Speaking from experience - you cannot go "partially organic". Once you start adding inorganic nutrients to an organic garden, our soil life dies, and once our microbes die - well, you get the idea. Its either one or the other.

I have heard of folks trying to do DWC organics - I suppose it can be done. I have also heard of many failures regarding this.

The biggest cause of failure that I've heard of in regards to hydro/dwc organics is that your hoses, reservoir, etc., all your dwc parts end up growing slime and grungy growth, which can end up killing off the grow. I'm sure it can be done, but I'm also sure that it would be a big ol' pain in the keester to keep everything clean like it needs to be.

I know the soil food web is an essential component of organic gardening, I'm wondering if it is possible to create this ecosystem in a hydroponic system.

I am not a scientist, but I dont believe that the same microbes/bacteria/fungus that we count on in our soil gardens have the ability to grow and/or thrive in a water setting. They need oxygen/air. Could you (heavily) aerate your reservoir? Probably, but I'm not sure if it would still be the correct medium for these microbes. By having a reservoir full of organic food and aerating it, as you would definetly need to, I think that you've now created an absolutely perfect environment to grow all kinds of yucky stuff! *lol*

I'm not sure if there are "Hydro" type organic nutrients out there or not. I think that (at least the quality (ahem) hydro nutes out there are formulated to have (mostly?)everything the plant needs to live on. I'm not sure if there are organic nutrients out there that have everything that the plants need. Thats a great question man.

I guess I personally think that a soil medium would simply be much easier than getting all set up and into this only to find out 2 months into it that its nothing but a pain in the butt. I'd be interested in hearing other comments though.

jerry.

p.s. - Organic Soil Rocks!

 

I think it is possible to develop an organic hydro system that works well, but I don't think it has been done. Yet.

What is on the market now is just marketing gimmicks aimed solely at harvesting your money.

 

I'd like to hear Lumpers and Microbe Man's input here. I was actually wondering this same thing the other day while I was in the grow room watching my ACT bubbling away. I didn't pose it myself because I thought the question of truly organic hydro could be either really smart or really stupid. But yeah, even though I'd probably never try it until a real working system has been invented, am a bit curious myself if this could work. Maybe run ACT's and organic nutrient teas through a hydro system instead of chemicals? Obviously have to be well strained to keep the pumps and parts from clogging up. To me the big question is whether or not the microbes, bacterias, etc could survive the pumping, spraying, etc of a hydro system, and if it would benefit the plants in a similar fashion.

Fun and interesting question to ponder either way!

 

There will be interesting hurdles to over come. Such as how to foster a microbial community. Bacteria shouldn't be hard but fostering fungal growth might be tough.

Not to mention that the larger living entities in a good organic soil probably add things to the mix that we haven't quantified yet. Earthworms, small bugs, etc.

 

It really does sound feasible to me, but I'm just guessing here. The only bottled organic nutes I would trust for hydro would have to be OMRI certified.

But... the big question remains- would ACT's and such nourish the beneficial lifeforms in a hydro or aquaponics setup similar to the way they do in soil? And in turn would they be able to transfer that nourishment/benefits to the plants? Aquaponics, as you suggest, might just be the way to go. This is a question for a microcosmic god.

Save us, Microbe Man!

 

I too want to try a system like this. A DWC with a lacto mixture for the water. Its going to run a small air pump to oxygenate the water. I only want the water to supply more air to the roots. I figures the lacto would stop the smell and build up slightly.

 

Submerged roots only, your reseavoir would be the new EWC's slushy, oxygenation lines would have to be a bit higher pressurized to oxygenate 'goop'. Think you'd have to have a live, well cultured slushy that didn't need changing, but rather 'restocking' with all the ammendments usually added to the soil we all mix. Should make them plant bioavailable. Sounds stinky, messy, kinda gross but doable.

 

Hey, you said what I said... I should have read farther down.

 

Either way, I'm repping goblueth for simply having the balls to pose this question and get the conversation started!

 

My biggest question is where you would get your CEC exchange from without any compost/humus. What would the negatively and positively charged ions attach themselves to. This is a big question. For example I am using a fully organic liquid nutrient line.(NOT FOR HYDRO) When I first started using this product line I tried growing in straight Pro-Mix BX.(Has no compost/humus it is a dead soil) Needless to say results were dismal. When using compost/humus results were fantastic. Without chelate's in the hydro nutrients I don't know how they would work properly. As you know once you add chelate's organic just went out the door. I Myself just don't know how you could grow organically w/o a living breathing soil.

I am not saying it absolutely unequivocally can not be done. I am just saying in all the research I have done I do not know how you would go about being successful.

Just my 2 cents and that is about all it is worth.

MGB

 

" The only bottled organic nutes I would trust for hydro would have to be OMRI certified."

Medical Grower, I hate to say it it but I don't think that "OMRI Certified" means as much as you think it does.

Jerry.

 

Yeah, that figures. Wrong again. Sigh. Still learning But since you brought this point up, "'Splain", Lucy. I had made the (obviously incorrect) assumption that if a product was OMRI certified that there was at least some amount of testing to back up that products organic claims unlike many of the alleged organic bottled stuff on the grow shop shelves.