The real reason we are bombing in such large quantities is to scare thepiss out of everybody. Bush wants them to fear us. We should be bombing, but we are going beyond that which is neccesary. I realize that we have to beat the shit out of the republican guard in order to guarantee that no sort of military riot happens. You know, troops with guns, and tanks, and no leaders. I just don't think that this number of missiles/sorties is neccesary. Maybe Saddam is ten times as bunkered in as I think, but I think he's pretty well bunkered so he'd have to have a lot of defenses.
well for one U dont know that. and 2 U dont have a pyicopathink dictotor hateing every little way that u live and just iching to lanch 100's of nuks at ur contry..so just think of it that way..then tell me how u fell Thats exactly how millions of people in the middle-east think of us. We gotta show them that we can use our heavy hand, but deftly. And just so you know, Saddam couldn't possibly have hundred of nukes, and he has no sort of inter-continental carriage system. He could try a nuclear attack with the one or two nukes he has using a van, but getting a nuclear bomb past Iraq's borders is damn near impossble. Thats the same reason we have nothing to fear from North Korea. We are laying off there bcause they could launch a nuclear weapon at S. Korea, but they probably won't if we give them what they want. Iraq was different. Saddam hated us. North Korea doesn't especially hate us, they just threaten us so we give them food. They're just thiefs. Saddam was a murderer and worse.
I disagree. This isn't reason, logic, or proof, any one of which would act as a legitimate argument. Using fear to get your way is exactly what terrorists do. This 'shock and awe' campaign is no better than the 9/11 attacks.
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! There's no reason or anything to bomb iraq out of the map, USA and UK armed the country, they supported the only terroristic activities Iraq has ever done. The oil wich they're so keen to get their hands will hold no profit to the iarqi people, Bush in all his wisdom said that "the money profited from the sales of the iraqi oli will be put to an foundation (or something like that) for the iraqi people " the meaning here is that the iraqs will not see nothing of the oil money, (well thay don't see it now either). This war will not make iraq a better or more democratic place, actually I think it's going to be even worse than it tis now, and the global thoughts and attitudes of america will turn against USA, as they're doing now. Kick that fucking Bush out of the freakin white house now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't recall any president telling Saddam to go and mustard gas his own people. And yes, we have had a part in causing Iraq to come to what it is today, but we weren't the only factor. We are trying to make ammends for what we have done in the past. Try being a little optomistic about the Iraqi oil. If not, I fear you are going to be both surprised and wrong. There is no way Bush could get away with bogarting the Iraqi oil fields. There is simply far too much pressure from the world. We have support among many nations of the world for our current acts, but there would be none for such rapine.
MrSmokebigbuds you need to take that bob marley pic off your name. he spoke for peace and your a damning his name with your hate.
Saddam mustard gassed kurds in iraq wich are some how become they're enemies, I hate Saddam and what he has done, but that doesn't justify UK and USA to go and boss around there, or to start telling them what to do. I think both Saddam and Bush should be forced to quit their "jobs. there's only one question in my head right no WHY DO PEOPLE HAVE TO MAKE THINGS SO DIFFICULT?!
its just an icon. he's not relating his personal opinions with decades old music. this is irrelevant. also, many people here just do not have the knowledge to be debating about a topic of this level, so please don't say things like "OMG Bush is a Fucker!!!!!!!!!!" and then follow it up with expletives with some other words thrown in between. all of these discussions are doing nothing but pissing me off royally. and the only reason it is 50/50 is because this is a freakin' pot website. any other place it'll be a 70/30 split, so don't think you are backed up with the rest of the country with your anti-war ignorance. also, it saddens me that riots broke out in san francisco, causing our money to pay police officers to detain these anarchist, rebellious, troubled individuals instead of being vigilant for terrorists, which are threating san fran.
There was a riot in San Fran? News to me. Protesting something you don't agree with is fine, but getting in others' ways and causing destruction of property is wrong. The mob mentality is something we should all fear.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by snowboardgod311 MrSmokebigbuds you need to take that bob marley pic off your name. he spoke for peace and your a damning his name with your hate. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ok 1 u dont know me ok!!, so dont say shit when u dont know who i am. for 1 i HATE WAR!!!, and i think that it was to be avido at all cost....but i have a reason i want him out that hits my HOME, if u dont know what iam talking about. ask some ppl hear they might tell u...SO.....don't say shit when u dont have any idear what the fuck ur talking about....
and on top of that what hate...if u tell me what hate i have (seeing how u dont know me) i will in fact take that pic down ...we have a bet....
aaargh too many people i want to quote.... aw shit... damn stoner memory. i cant remember half of it now.. ted sed: "I agree with you guys for the most part, this is nothing like WW2" yep... nothing like WW2. the world moved on alot since then. it's looking like the faint murmerings of WW3. and on the privatisation of oil... who the fuck do u all think has the money to buy the previously state owned oil industry in iraq? any of the iraqi people perhaps? no. not bloody likely. after 12 years of heavy sanctions they're all skint. it will most probably be .... "outside investment". don't ask me from where tho... thats a trickier one. and to whoever it was who said that there was no way bush was going to get his hands on the oil (clever use of the term bogart)... of course they know the world is watching. Amerika is too cunning for that. it, as always, will be done as some under the table deal somewhere. and i think it was ted who sed something about precision strike... shit yeah. with all the worlds intelligence agencies and the most amazing technology known to man and we still cant take out one guy whom we even know which city he resides..1?!?!? i don't beleive it. they never wanted a precision strike, i don't think they even really wanted to kill him with those first tommahawks. i have to say i do respect why snowboardgod said that about smokebigbuds, i too felt that some of your opinions werent quite fitting for a guy who has Marley's image as his avatar. stein kinda gettin on my tits..... "blah blah blah...follow it up with expletives with some other words thrown in between. blah blah blah" yeah.. its those other words in between that matter... if you dont like the colourfull language a) learn to skim read past those words and b) don't use it yourself. try to start payin attention to what is being said... not how its being said. and also when ak say: "all of these discussions are doing nothing but pissing me off royally. and the only reason it is 50/50 is because this is a freakin' pot website. any other place it'll be a 70/30 split, so don't think you are backed up with the rest of the country with your anti-war ignorance." anti war ignorance? do you even know what ignorance means? these people seem anything but ignorant. and i hope u remember that u on the internet... which is global. ...not just one country. and as the flaw of democracy is, majority isn't always right. mainly because there's this clever tool the politicians use... its called propaganda. and you as a pot smoker should know this. and akstien has either changed his veiw from his first reply or he being a hypocrit. ... and to anyone still reading this who has the opinion that bush is an "alright guy" or a "good leader" or even a "good christian"... oppression comes in many forms, the devil works in mysterious ways too, the best lies are alway hidden in small truths, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, and finally... judge a man not by the colour of his skin (or the size of his moustache*) but by the content of his character and his actions (which will usually root out the liers). *example... charly chaplin & hitler. edit: or every pornstar from the 70s - 80s and Stalin. and as much as it hurts me to seem like i'm defending blair... at least he TRIED to go down the UN route, if only to maintain international relations. ubik.... excelent dude... just excelent. i really dont think too many people have given enough thought as to what could follow this war... what will be left after... and the consequenses on a global scale. after sadam has been removed ((good thing, obviously. it's the method thats in dispute)) and a supposedly democratic government is "put in place" there will be shifts in power, which i believe will hold unknown consequences unless monitored, and not only monitored but perhaps "guided" to protect the shee-ites (havnt got a clue how its spelled) and kurdiraqis. democracy is perhaps not the best method of government if it were to be based even loosly on a western format. 'majority rules' doesnt do any good for a nation split into vastly different peoples and beleifs... look a the mess in afganistan, admittedly an absolute fucking mess in the first place, but some have said it is worse now (i've seen little of whats going on there now, but i find that hard to beleive). AND... what the hell is Turkey playing at!??!? do they really think the kurds have that much fire power and might?!? a people so heavily repressed. a people who are but a few farmers and partizans? i've just seen breif images of what their military build up along the iraqi boarder looks like... seriously... it's like they TOTALLY geared up for WW3!!! crazy scary shit. ... bush is a fucker. i've known that long since before he got in power. anyone who doesnt know that must have their hand in his pocket or simply just doesnt know enough about him, his history, his position, the people around him etc etc. i've got more to say on this, but i'm going to leave that for another night.
I think bush is Mentally challenged. Not saying that I dont like so called "retarded" people, But I just dont think that they should run a country. P.S. When I say retarded I mean no disrespect to Mentally disabled people. Its not there fault They turned out that way, It was just the way nature intended.
You know the sickening part is that most of the reason why a lot of america is supporting this is due to TV propaganda. Did you know that there was a study done and there was a direct link between tv watching and war support? The people that watched the most tv news actually knew LESS about the middle east and the background of our situation with them, and were profoundly pro-war. Something to think about when America's news coverage is different than everywhere else in the world, and America is the ONLY country in the entire world with majority support of this war. Are you pro-war people really so fucking arrogant that you just think that the rest of the ENTIRE WORLD is just wrong, and that you just know better than EVERYONE? Anti-war people are the only ones who are informed, because the facts don't lie, the facts aren't filled with propaganda, they just tell a tale of an unjust war on top of an unjust situation. Pro-war is ignorance.
in responce to what xero sed.... absolutely spot on man. the UK news is somewhat similar but NO where as bad by a long long long way. Both times i've been over to america i did actively try to see as much news as possable to both understand the culture and to try and deconstruct and analise wtf was going on. its really disturbing how people get so sucked in by it all. to me, being someone who tries to get knowledge from as wide a range of sources as possable, it all seemed so transparent. maybe most of the people watching just think about the questions the news people ask, and never consider that that's the point. never consider the unasked questions and then in turn why those questions where never asked. It all seemed to simple to see how the conclusions that were being reached were totally lead to and guided... no one asked the questions. (i think Bill hicks said something about that in the whole iraqgate affair... "i was not there to ask the questions" or something) americans generally think their news is impartial ((HAHA WHAT A JOKE AMERICAN PATRIOTISM SPLASHED EVERYWHERE)) and honest just because its not state run. well i wish they'd start to understand that the vast majority of it is state sponsored. just like that channel 1 bullshit (if thats still going)... i think it was part of the dare programme in the states. and hour of propaganda that school children are forced to watch. sick ... just sick. "Honey, I just saw on the news that John was asking Jackie 'what was that noise?' and that's why his head blew off- Honey, What time is American Gladiators on? Boy I'm So glad we're free!" - the Late Great Bill Hicks (murdered by those he sought to expose), doing an impression of american civilian brainwashed by TV. Keep repeating "we are free, we are free" - the Late Great Bill Hicks (murdered by those he sought to expose), doing an impressionistic example of easy it had been to fool the american public. it does all make me wonder more about BBC NEWS 24, and especially after witnessing discrepancies and delays in reporting things more readilly available on other channels (most notably channel 4), not that they are all perfect angels either... ITN on ITV for example is such Tabloid bullshit... its disgusting.
thnx zy, some folks say i should become a politician. which one day i might do for the LCA. or maybe the SSP
Digit, being from America I can tell you it is quite bad, if it weren't for the internet or c-span and public television (the things you should be watching if you ever come over again) I wouldn't know a thing about what's going on. And now Rumsfeld is trying to claim that showing prisoners of war on television is a violation of the Geneva convention... honestly that's the most pitiful argument I've heard so far regarding this. The American public is so used to assuming that their government could do no wrong that not only is it hard to convince anyone that they might just be lying or at least wrong, it's also hard to show general dessent at all. People have actually yelled at me in public for being against this war, at least I can still come here and speak my piece to the world. We aren't all like this and there are some here trying to change things.
I have to agree with you guys about the propaganda. I have come to the conclusion that our government's propaganda machine is the second best ever (after, of course, the Nazi one). I really think that CNN is leading to a decline in America. I hate it. i really dont think too many people have given enough thought as to what could follow this war... what will be left after... and the consequenses on a global scale. after sadam has been removed ((good thing, obviously. it's the method thats in dispute)) and a supposedly democratic government is "put in place" there will be shifts in power, which i believe will hold unknown consequences unless monitored, and not only monitored but perhaps "guided" to protect the shee-ites (havnt got a clue how its spelled) and kurdiraqis. democracy is perhaps not the best method of government if it were to be based even loosly on a western format. 'majority rules' doesnt do any good for a nation split into vastly different peoples and beleifs (quote from Digit) This is why I believe Iraq should be split after the war. Democracy is currently our best form of government. We need to find a way to make it stick in Iraq. Three separate countries: one for the Kurds, one for the Shi'ites, and on for the Sunnis. Perhaps these three groups will eventually have their philosophies come into agreement and be able to be re-formed as one again (as the entire world should be), but there is no way we can get them to work together at this time. If we don't take a very active role in rebuilding the government, there will be another Saddam in fifteen years.