Odd System - Need Help

So I had a grow going with a pot filled on the bottom with rock (2"), then a layer of rock wool plugs (1.5") and finally soil on top. Originally, I wanted to try an air injection system, but after a wild ph problem with another.. that idea went out the door fast.

So I figured I'd make the best of the situation and pulled the inner pot only to find that runoff roots grew out the bottom. They were a bit tan, so I got a catch pan and filled with some Hydro guard mix.. ph'd at different levels and nothing is really bringing them ALL back to white. I'm not sure what ph the runoff roots would thrive in. I calibrated the meter and tested at 6 flat. Well it's not doing as great as the more neutral water, but I'm really not sure which way is better bc they both show some o2 probs (our something similar to partially be tan, others pure white.

I know this is not a traditional system but it blew up in growth when adding the bubbler underneath. There's more than enough o2, with a 1/4" tube system poked with equidistant holes with a pin. I'm just not sure what is happening. Can anyone help?

What should the lower bubbler ph be at? Can a plant even handle two ph ranges in this manner? Is it acclimated to the soil and therefore outs only able to take up so much in a 6.5 range of the nutes? I already dramatically stunted one with ph issues (stupid prong meter). This has done great but had a couple yellowing leaves with a qt tsp grow big (Fox farms), and 2mL Hydroguard with a few drops mixed at a time of ph down, to go from 7 to 6.

I will need help with posting pics, but I can get them up if someone can point me in the right direction.


Thanks in advance

 

Well, first thing, I'm no noOB. I do understand the ph, and what it is in science, but I asked what the plant would react to if given two different sources of ph'd media?

To correct where you went off track... the problem does not sit in the rock/rockwool layers.. I added that though bc it explains the explosion of runoff roots.

As I asked, if anyone can tell me how to get the pics up, (if there's an upload option or if it's gotta be linked by code). I'd love to show how perky and nice it is... my problem had been the ph guessing tho. Considering soilless mediums prefer the 5.5-6.5ish range, I thought maybe an overlap would work. But I feel it may lead to stone interesting news for growers if we can figure this mechanism out. Basically, when you have the soil in there, the roots don't seem to like lower ph in the runoff roots. They seem to prefer one consistent ph throughout. That's most likely why the runoff roots form in the first place. They follow the water, and adjust to whatever the rest of the plant likes. Two zones won't work and will give deficiencies.. least in this case.

Btw, I leave it to pros like you to stick to the old methods, but I simply thought, this allows soil lovers to take advantage of a commonly occurring nuisance (runoff roots They normally cut and slightly stunt), and also separating the majority of nutes in a bubbler system underneath. This provides far more o2 (plant perks up significantly within hours), but it also provides a failsafe for overloving. If too many nutes are given (bc I give a very light dose now and then to keep something in the soil.. while 3/4 of the nutes go thru the runoff). If you mess up and notice burning, or other problems.. you simply change out the bubbler reservoir with neutral water or slightly acidic and bam... problem solved without ridiculously flushing and chancing even more noob problems like overwatering by flushing. I figured, why not help make a system that eliminates some problems while going with the flow and taking advantage of others. I am sorry you didn't like this individual test, but I would've really appreciated some answers towards my questions rather than opinion and conjecture on why my system is a waste of time. Help me with the pics, I can show it's not the waste you may have initially thought it was. The system is ultra cheap to build. If it can even help a handful of growers, while saving them from gimmick systems and wasting money, then I'd feel my time was well spent on a small section of the garden. Progress and new findings don't come from everybody doing the same thing repeatedly.

 

Also, checking the initial ph, nutrient introduced ph, and runoff ph actually gives you a more rounded idea of what is going in to each step, then being able to break those steps down to troubleshoot if necessary. I'm not saying go crazy about PH, but each grower must learn their environment. And testing ph and tds really makes a difference. Especially in runoff. Could tell you if you have too much or too little of something in your soil. There's many effective means to the same end... a plentiful harvest if quality stuff. To each their own..

Sorry if the typing is messed Up.. this keyboard is going.

 

Btw, I forgot to mention, I found out by trial and error with the ph thing and using dual zones. Soon as the ph matched or was closer to the main pot, it got white roots again and drank like normal. The early deficiency signs are leaving as well.

I'd still appreciate some thoughts on the subject though. Anyone who had similar experiences to sharE?

 

It's funny you say that.. bc I actually contemplated what to do earlier... then decided to cut into the bottom and take a peek. Seen that it was extremely root bound. So it needed a swap regardless.

Got the ocean forest mix and started prepping the removal of the dual zone system.. After loosening the sides and pulling it out I seen the extent. Things were crazy, but ultimately were being choked. Did the swap and got a pretty hot reading which will mean I have to watch this one the next few days. The dual zone system DID work very well though. Made the roots go absolutely crazy in the soil, since they could drink while still being triggered to search for water on top I think.

But that's one thing that I just thought somebody would have sone ideas about. The ph thing. Now with ph, I still have to disagree. Ph is extremely important in soil, and I've found out the hard way with Fox Farms Tiger Bloom and the two generations that got killed off after successfully producing for 3 seasons. I never paid ANY attention to it before but when it dropped nearly every leaf off in early flower, I nearly had a breakdown. Didn't have meters and want prepared besides a crap 2 prong 3 in 1 meter. Anyway, I found its really a good indicator to paint a fuller picture in soil grows.

What do you suggest foR sOil theN? (Sorry my kb is fd). Just hoping your water is neutral and give very rare dosages of nutes? That's basically what I did a long time ago. If someone buys a hot soil though... and then they give nutes and the ph goes out of whack, it's hard to tell them to flush. Bc soIl will remain a messed up ph until it's dried near fully.

Sorry I'd go on But I'm tired as Hell. Plus this stuff still bypasses any questions I've asked in the previous posts. Putting pics up and about how to handle ph issues. For instance, if you mix up a hot soil, and add perlite with nutes that make it hotter... then you add dolamite lime as you mix it... should that even things out to buffer? Or how about, what can be done with a transplant into a soil that has nutrients (Like ocean forest). It seems any time I deal with those types that make ph drop a ton... I do not win. I eNd up with ph problems and they do not seem to correcT. Will know soon enough if the lime worked.

You have to experiment to learn. But I agree with you.. must hybrid systems are a complete waste. I call this more out a supplemental system, as the majority still remained in one type of medium. Well... if I can learn how to get pics up... could show the way it encased 20+lbs of rocks and the rockwool too. Looked amazing. Was a bitch getting the rocks out. But the system looked like a pot made out Ramen noodles.

I'd love to get some ph advice in soil tho.. so if anyone with exp can add.. I'd appreciate it.

 

Oh, and with the ph stuff, I totally agree.. it's ridiculously difficult to gauge. Especially that liquid stuff when you're colour blind. But as I mentioned, I feel it's a great indicator to what is happening in the soil. I'm still semi new to ph, but as for growing knowledge base, I have over a decade under my belt. Usually get a 0.75-0.95 g/w efficiency overall, with a 400w HPS And 140w (actual draw) bloom Led. So maybe it was just boredom in why I experiment. But the ph thing was a matter Of devastating damage and a learning experience. One that extended the season to about 16wks (and still very little Amber, only cloudy). But there was about 3-4 wk of battling ph with nothing but a 3in 1 meter.

Actually... anyone ever use those spike shaped ph meters for soil that have the round gauge in top (Not the thin spike one, it's a cone shape almost)?

Like this
Soil Ph Meter Phs0010 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009VXJO5E/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_jWBsvb0TZCGD4

Was jw if anyone ever used these and what their experience was with them.

 

 
Well, I typically only go with one or two at a time in that chamber. I prefer to allow quite a bit of LST/SoG/Fluxing to create different shapes and utilize the max amount of light in my space (I also use the sh!t out of mylar to confine the space). The mylar is taped up under the SoG to reflect directly back up under the canopy and keep light from being wasted in the lower area with the pots. This is normally between one and two plants though.. from the difficulty of lining mylar between more plants than that. I prefer having a more rounded shape to my meds.. not one sided growth. 
 
The setup that I mentioned above is still in the veg chamber, and is actually going very strong since the transplant. I will have to post pics when I get time during the week, but I have read more on Google since nobody replied about the pics/posting. I was on the phone other times, so it did not seem as apparent. I will also post some pics of older configurations to show you what I mean though.
 
I get good regular soil grows, but I guess I just got bored lately, so I tried thinking of ways to help newcomers. Different system mods that can eliminate or minimize risks that many of us go through in the early stages. Over the years, I've collected a lot of problem pics in great detail, and to much further extents than most pics online in the guides. Maybe I should try organizing that info and making some type of guide myself. Because the system mods aren't doing it for me either lately. I liked the modified bubbler system, but it was something that could not continue due to the sheer volume of roots. The swap with the FF Ocean Forest mix should be just as good if not better in the long run.
 
But going back to the GPW, yeah that's generally a single plant, vegged for 6 weeks from sprout, and then flowered for up to 14 weeks. Normally it ends up between 12-13, but it varies depending on the strain. Many of them have come from really good bagseed over the years (when an occasional bud would have a seed.. I think they may have come from feminized plants since I've had a 6 for 6 success rate out of the last 6 that reached maturity), and being that the strain varies in which I find the seeds occasionally, I would have various growth times. That's why I started the perpetual method with the two chambers... so I did not have to worry about schedules. Simply take the notes and keep track of things. The best I've gotten from one plant is 15.6 oz, but there's been a dramatic upgrade from a 400w HPS only, to a few LED panels mixed, so I'm excited to see how things will turn out with all those together. The LEDs are bloom spec only. 
 
Why do you only shoot for 1oz/plant though? Unless you are not doing any training and you are fast flowering them, you should be able to get more from one plant. What type of light setup do you have? Do you do any types of training or manipulation to them also? I will make sure to get a couple pics up later, and you can see some past grows I've done. Then, if you'd like some help on getting more for your time and effort, I can help you out. I'm almost sure of that. Even in my earliest grows, I still managed to pull 2oz from a single plant and they were stressed, probably ph imbalanced, and definitely being burned. Plus I harvested early most times. The anxiousness of being young... heh. Just saying though... if you like what you see in the pics, and would like some help/pointers/advice.. I'd be glad to do so. Check back later tonight and I should have some different pics up from a mix of grows. Can show the system above and other things I mentioned.