>be pregnant >go to protest in the spotlight for police brutality she would have been a shitty mother.
[quote name='"FenceWalker"']I call bullshit. [/quote] You know what this reminded me of even before reading this? An I Survived... Episode of a guy who had broken into an elderly couples home and had bashed an old man in the head, much to the attackers dismay this old man had a hell of a lot of fight in him and gave the attacker a better thrashing than he received. The attacker ended up bleeding profusely from multiple wounds and when the mans wife was on the phone with police he yelled I have aids as a means to get them to get off of him and give him the chance he needed to escape arrest. My thought on it initially was she was yelling I'm pregnant to get out of being arrested same as some women cry they're pregnant to keep a potential baby daddy on hold.
[quote name='"NajeBeats"'] You know what this reminded me of even before reading this? An I Survived... Episode of a guy who had broken into an elderly couples home and had bashed an old man in the head, much to the attackers dismay this old man had a hell of a lot of fight in him and gave the attacker a better thrashing than he received. The attacker ended up bleeding profusely from multiple wounds and when the mans wife was on the phone with police he yelled I have aids as a means to get them to get off of him and give him the chance he needed to escape arrest. My thought on it initially was she was yelling I'm pregnant to get out of being arrested same as some women cry they're pregnant to keep a potential baby daddy on hold.[/quote] I fucking love I Survived and I remember this episode. That guy got his ass whipped
Well no need to burst your bubble, but your thought's are incorrect. She was pregnant and I've been in a group like that before, it's hard as fuck to get outta large group of people alone, she had an unborn baby in her stomach, I can only imagine that being a trillion time's more difficult. Well what I'm really trying to say is..
Lol I was expecting nwa album cover. If she was really pregnant and really miscarried because of it then it's sad, but if I were ever pregnant I wouldn't put myself in the position of being in an area of protesters at high risk of bs. There are plenty of areas for the Occupy supporters to be and support the movement without putting themselves in harms way. That's where she should have been. Then she wouldn't have to be mourning an unborn child's death.
[quote name='"NajeBeats"'] Lol I was expecting nwa album cover. If she was really pregnant and really miscarried because of it then it's sad, but if I were ever pregnant I wouldn't put myself in the position of being in an area of protesters at high risk of bs. There are plenty of areas for the Occupy supporters to be and support the movement without putting themselves in harms way. That's where she should have been. Then she wouldn't have to be mourning an unborn child's death.[/quote] The problem is that there shouldn't be any "high risk" zone in a peaceful protest. And it's not the protesters fault that there has been violence it's the police's. Have you seen the military like responses there have been against our own U.S. citizens participating in a peaceful protest? It's ridiculous since when did the term "free speech" become so narrow?
[quote name='"NoFlame"'] The problem is that there shouldn't be any "high risk" zone in a peaceful protest. And it's not the protesters fault that there has been violence it's the police's. Have you seen the military like responses there have been against our own U.S. citizens participating in a peaceful protest? It's ridiculous since when did the term "free speech" become so narrow?[/quote] There shouldn't be. But there always will be. There will always be that one knuckle head from either the protesters or the police force that fucks it all up for everyone. And these may be peaceful protests but they are in areas that are not there for protests. If it were truly peaceful they would do a march to somewhere that they legally reserved for them to protest at. The occupy people are not all innocent bunny rabbits. After some food vendors stopped supplying them with food they covered the food carts of small business owners, people who aren't part of the banks, with feces and other bodily fluids. These fluids were blood piss and shit. They covered a small food cart owners cart with all this nasty just because they wouldn't give them free food. These cart owners are not millionaires or even hundred thousandaires that's some fucked shit from the occupy people. The fact of the matter is they aren't well within the law they may not be attacking anyone but I'm sure they are provoking by calling officers pigs or saying fuck the police and not giving a care in the world about not being within legal protest areas. She could have supported from the sidelines, but she didn't, she took that risk by being in the heat of the area. So if an officer is to be held responsible for it then every girl who gets on a roller coaster and miscarries should be able to sue the ride conductor? I think not. She can enjoy the park from the tea cups and not from the Goliath. Same way this woman could have protested and not put herself and her child in harms way.
From the looks of it in the video and photo progression, things were relatively peaceful... until certain cops showed up, and started acting out. Then things started looking bad... then worse. The police were firing pepper spray, at people who were casually milling, and shuffling around, looking about as threatening as a herd of leisurely grazing cattle. And, treating them like cattle, the police in these situations seem to follow a similar pattern of surrounding, corralling and herding them together... and then, they start attacking. After that, for any folks who may be wondering, according to the woman in question (and this coincides with both other reports on this incident, as well as unrelated incidents) the police didn't just spray her with mace, they kicked her in the stomach, too. Considering how tame that crowd looked, it doesn't really seem like mace or physical violence against helpless women, was really required. Yes, she probably shouldn't have been there. If it had been me, I would have stayed home myself... there unfortunately would still have been plenty of economic turmoil left for her, after her pregnancy was over, had she been able to complete it. But on the other hand, if the cops didn't show up and start actively picking fights and attacking people, and had the protest remained peaceful, she may have kept her baby while being involved in a peaceful movement. Miscarriage is pretty common at that stage, but assuming she and the witnesses are telling the truth, getting kicked in the stomach a few times certainly doesn't help your odds of bringing a baby to term. Did anyone see the little 84 year old lady there? She was perfectly safe in that environment, earlier on... that is, until the police started cranking things up a notch. Who are the officers really trying to protect, by doing this? They are only supposed to resort to this type of action when it is absolutely necessary. Before that, if people simply 'don't vacate an area' (oh noes), then it's time to start clinking handcuff's and filling the paddy wagon... it's not the time to shine your ass-kicking boots, whip out your billyclubs, and start wielding pepper spray at innocent civilians, for what basically amounts to group loitering. These officers come off appearing horribly spoiled, and cruel, as though they have no clue what a protest can look like on other parts of the globe. It doesn't matter that, "it's cheaper and there's less paperwork if you scare them off by hurting and injuring a few of them, than it is to incarcerate a huge group". If the protest isn't violent, then you don't retort with violence. If they aren't isolating and removing very-dangerous protestors, and arresting other people in hoards, before, during, and after these violent incidents, then something is going terribly wrong. They take for granted the fact that, openly loading people into vans, and taking them downtown, has a way of 'dispersing' a group of protesters all of its own... sometimes even better than throwing smoke grenades, and spraying pepper spray. Violent tactics, often incite violence, but the threat of possible long-term legal repercussions sometimes has a way of sending people running. The cops are there, each with their own individual mind-set and usually a lack of training and experience to boot, and a lot of the time they are provoking the worst out of many of these protestors.. and there, you have your bad press. The cops do all that, hurt people, get violent... then they stand around talking to each other, not arresting anyone, not touching those equally-guilty protestors putting on a show in front of the cameras, after the fact. How is it that there are crimes that an officer can physically attack, and injure you for, but not arrest you for, and then immediately after allow others to do openly? There's a difference between being physically removed from a situation when you stubbornly won't move or leave, and being kicked and pepper sprayed then walked away from. Those are defensive measures. There would be MUCH less bad press, if the police just had the foresight to use a little more common sense, and if they picked their battles a bit more wisely, and used certain types of force only where and when it was truly needed... rather than whenever it's humanly possible for them to get away with it. They should probably leave those tactics to the lesser thugs and seedy night-club bouncers, where they belong. I usually try not to get involved with these discussions.. everyone has too many opinions, and I still tend to agree with some aspects of the opinions I disagree with Just because the girl was probably in the wrong for being there (and even that is just an opinion), it doesn't make the situation as it transpired, 'peachy'.
Woman is just out of college, tons of debt, can't find a job, is pregnant, wants to make a difference, goes to OWS protest, gets herded around and pepper sprayed and miscarries. Baby was going to grow up in a shitty home and live a shitty life. The mom tried to have some part in helping it's future... at least she tried instead of sitting around feeling sorry for herself while her and her kid grow up unhappy... ..Only to get ridiculed for not having the babies interests in mind. I know that's probably not her exact story first hand, but that's how I see this whole issue in my mind.
You're right, she had the right to be at the protest. That doesn't make it any less stupid of her. Sorry, but if you are pregnant and you CHOOSE to go to a protest where there are police in riot gear and worldwide reports of clashes with the police involving pepper spray and other physical use of force, then you are not making a safe choice for your child. She also has the right to chug a bottle of vodka while pregnant (ok maybe not since she is 19). But it would be pretty freaking stupid though, huh? PS - This is her claim that the police caused the miscarriage, with absolutely no medical evidence supporting her claim at this point. I also need to point out to you guys that pepper spray is pretty much the least possible use of force that the police could possibly use. It's the safest way for them to move people when verbal commands don't work. Would you rather they just get out the batons and start beating people and wrestling with them? Yeah, no one will get hurt that way.
[quote name='"jeffy420"']I don't like liberals[/quote] Way to play right into the control system's hands. Any division you think there is between you and a Liberal or between you and anyone is not real. Every human basically wants the exact same things. We are much less powerful divided and sedated, it's time to move past all of that.