??obamacare?? will i have to buy health insurance?

If you get in an auto accident, and are sued, are you capable of paying if you lose? What if you get hit, are disabled or worse, and the other person had no money, and no insurance, and you had no health insurance either? Would you still feel that it's wrong to have mandatory car insurance?

If you get sick, or injured and need surgery or long term care, are you OK with not being able to get it because you didn't pay into it?

You're going to need a doctor at some point in your life, but if you have no money it will be free. If you have little money, it will not cost much. Any way you look at it, it's for your benefit.

 

except during an epidemic.

the next baby boomer generation.

or when we all grow old and are 'deemed' worthless in the governments eyes.

government can barely run USPS, the DMV, and gave up their power over coining money to a private corporation. I don't necessarily trust them.

 

Isn't it smart to have health insurance anyway? Otherwise, you'll get sick and the hospital will have to sell off the debt.

Oh, and here's some food for thought. Currently, America ranks 37 in healthcare. That's right, Saudi Arabia has better healthcare than America.

edit: This post doesn't address rich people. If you're rich, you can keep your current plan under the new bill.

 

Well I don't trust the government either, but we have no choice when it comes to health. One injury or a serious medical condition, without insurance, can clean out almost anyone, for good, and sometimes can kill you. Nobody likes to pay for insurance, but to not have it, when it's available, is stupid - not just for the uninsured, but for the rest of us as well.

I've bought apartment insurance for years and fortunatly never had a fire, flood, etc., but if it happened at least we'd get something back. Sure, the money goes to Allstate, and to people that filed a claim with them. I'm not crying about that, I'm glad I didn't have to use it myself.

 

At least in my state, this IS and HAS been the case. Illegals and people who don't work(and their children) get healthcare(and food, and a check every month) for free, but even people that work at McDonalds have to pay for it. If I am going to have to pay for other peoples insurance, I would rather pay for the insurance of someone that works than for that of someone who doesn't.

Of course, I would prefer not to pay for everyone elses problems but I live in the "land of the free" so I don't have much choice,

 

We shouldn't have to be forced to buy it. It's UNCONSTITUTIONAL, period. Now is it stupid to not have it? Yes ofcourse it is. Healthcare costs ALOT of money. Don't you think that might give people the incentive to work so they CAN afford it? Now I def agree if you are handicapped or SERIOUSLY CANNOT work then yes we should have some kind of small fund for those people. Stop taxing us so dam much and stealing our hard earned money so we can have the chance to live comfortably AND have the chance to have insurance.

“Fathom the odd hypocrisy that Obama wants every citizen to prove that they are insured, but people don't have to prove they are citizens.” ~Ben Stein

 

There's four years until that part of the plan goes into effect, betcha anything mandatory insurance will be stricken before it is enacted.

 

We have no choice precisely because of the government. If it were not for all of their rules and regulations on health care providers, insurance providers, etc. then health care wouldn't be expensive in the first place. The health care industry is just as guilty as the government when it comes to the shoddy and expensive services we get. It is the doctors, lawyers, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and even smart ass liberals and dumb ass conservatives that have screwed things up. They keep fuckin' with the system trying to make this more fair or that more accessible or drive this competitor out of business, but all they've done is drive up the cost. Get the damn government out of the way of health care providers and let them do their job, compete against each other and lower the prices.

 

You leave out the most important fact of all. Healthcare wouldn't cost nearly as much if the government wasn't involved in payments. Government involvement in the healthcare industry is the reason healthcare costs so much in the first place more government involvement is only going to make the costs go up again.

Also while we are on the topic lets says you do everything right and you remain healthy do you think the government is going to return any of the money you payed into the system even though you never used the system ? OFC not they are going to keep that money and you are pretty much going to be paying a tax for simply living.

 

Fuck it then, might as well just rip up the constitution. Its truly disturbing how people these days seem to willing to hand over their bodies to government control.

 

I'd be glad to buy private health insurance, if I could afford it. For a married couple, a decent Blue Cross Blue Shield policy is $36,000 a year in New York.

The odds are that you are going to get sick at some point. Even if you do not, with health care you can go to doctors to get check ups and at least have a chance of being diagnosed and treated before it's too late.

In the United States, the senior citizens have Medicare, which puts their health on a par with people in countries that have universal health care. Since we now have a large amount of non-senior people who have no insurance, or very little, we have earned the dubious distinction of being in last place for health care in developed countries. Dead last - Not exactly something to brag about. Due to greed and waste, the prices are driven sky high even for those who have insurance. There's a lot of overkill, or nothing, in the United States health care system (if you can even call it that), ie tests being needlessly repeated, drugs that are not necessary or wrong, and other problems that should have been addressed but were not.


U.S. scores dead last again in healthcare study

By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor
WASHINGTON | Wed Jun 23, 2010


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Americans spend twice as much as residents of other developed countries on healthcare, but get lower quality, less efficiency and have the least equitable system, according to a report released on Wednesday.

The United States ranked last when compared to six other countries -- Britain, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand, the Commonwealth Fund report found.

"As an American it just bothers me that with all of our know-how, all of our wealth, that we are not assuring that people who need healthcare can get it," Commonwealth Fund president Karen Davis told reporters in a telephone briefing.

Previous reports by the nonprofit fund, which conducts research into healthcare performance and promotes changes in the U.S. system, have been heavily used by policymakers and politicians pressing for healthcare reform.

Davis said she hoped health reform legislation passed in March would lead to improvements.

The current report uses data from nationally representative patient and physician surveys in seven countries in 2007, 2008, and 2009. It is available here

In 2007, health spending was $7,290 per person in the United States, more than double that of any other country in the survey.

Australians spent $3,357, Canadians $3,895, Germans $3,588, the Netherlands $3,837 and Britons spent $2,992 per capita on health in 2007. New Zealand spent the least at $2,454.

This is a big rise from the Fund's last similar survey, in 2007, which found Americans spent $6,697 per capita on healthcare in 2005, or 16 percent of gross domestic product.

"We rank last on safety and do poorly on several dimensions of quality," Schoen told reporters. "We do particularly poorly on going without care because of cost. And we also do surprisingly poorly on access to primary care and after-hours care."

NETHERLANDS RANKED FIRST OVERALL

The report looks at five measures of healthcare -- quality, efficiency, access to care, equity and the ability to lead long, healthy, productive lives.

Britain, whose nationalized healthcare system was widely derided by opponents of U.S. healthcare reform, ranks first in quality while the Netherlands ranked first overall on all scores, the Commonwealth team found.

U.S. patients with chronic conditions were the most likely to say they gotten the wrong drug or had to wait to learn of abnormal test results.

"The findings demonstrate the need to quickly implement provisions in the new health reform law," the report reads.

Critics of reports that show Europeans or Australians are healthier than Americans point to the U.S. lifestyle as a bigger factor than healthcare. Americans have higher rates of obesity than other developed countries, for instance.

"On the other hand, the other countries have higher rates of smoking," Davis countered. And Germany, for instance, has a much older population more prone to chronic disease.

Every other system covers all its citizens, the report noted and said the U.S. system, which leaves 46 million Americans or 15 percent of the population without health insurance, is the most unfair.

"The lower the performance score for equity, the lower the performance on other measures. This suggests that, when a country fails to meet the needs of the most vulnerable, it also fails to meet the needs of the average citizen," the report reads.

(Editing by Sandra Maler and Cynthia Osterman)

U.S. scores dead last again in healthcare study | Reuters

 

Thats all well and good but out of all that you simply ignored my point about government involvement in the payment of healthcare services are the reason healtcare costs so much in the first place. Take your Blue Cross Blue Shield for 36k a year if government wasn't involved in the healthcare system that same policy might only cost 5k a year for a young healthy person.

I am not saying there isn't a problem with the healthcare system what I am saying is the problem is with healthcare costs and obamacare only transfers the cost to the tax payer it doesn't do anything to solve the original problem of healthcare costs being too high.

High cost is the problem the source of the high cost is government involvement. What type of logic are you using to think more government involvement in the healthcare industry is going to bring cost down when all it has done so far is make costs go higher? Do you really think it matters who you write the check to? The government will take the money for obamacare from the population so instead of paying the hospital/doctor you will pay the government they will take a cut and then pay the hospital/doctor. I duno now that I think about it it's kinda mafia style you always got to go through the godfather (government).

I feel the same way man. I think if America is still around by 2014 I might have to move to the Alaskan wilderness or something just to get away from what this great nation is descending into. I really don't want to have the govenment in full control of my body/healthcare and would rather live off the land in the wilderness than hand over control to my body.

 

Bingo. Government run healthcare means they can set whatever price they want which will drive others out of business. More competition, lower prices.

 

I do not understand what you mean. Blue Cross Blue Shiled is not a government agancy, it's private. There are government programs that subsidize BCBS policies, but if you are not eligable for that, it's 36 thousand dollars a year for a couple, at least in New York.

This is why we've got 10's of millions of working people without healthcare in this country. Their employers no longer provide health care and they make too much to get a government subsidized plan, so they go without it.

Last place, friends, dead last.

 

Insurance companies charge premium based on how much they think your healthcare costs are going to be plus some profit on top for the services. If hospital care is cheaper the cost of insurance premiums will also go down because the amount of money they would have to pay out if something happens goes down. The amount of money the hospital charges for their services determines the amount of money insurance companies charge for premiums.

Also that millions of people without healthcare line is very misleading. I for one don't have healthcare insurance but I don't worry about healthcare because I have set up a special savings account just for healthcare if something was to happen I would have the money to pay a doctor directly and if nothing ever happens I will just merge that money into my retirement funds and buy myself a nice boat to sail the world or something in my old age. If something happens to me that will cost more than my savings account has i am not above considering going to a vet because vets are much cheaper than doctors. If that doesn't work then I will just rely on God to cure me if God thinks it's my time to go then so be it. I am saved Christian so dieing isn't really all that scary to me cuz I know where I am going.

The people without any special saving for healthcare need to learn to be more wise with their money it's simple as that. I have been putting $5 a week into a savings account sense I got my first job and have a sizible amount of money in there now but I have not reached my goal yet so I am still adding to it. $5 a week is not that much money almost anyone can afford that and with interest you end up with alot more than you put in.

 

There is nothing "misleading" about the nearly 50 million uninsured people in this country, the majority of whom have jobs. From the census article below, 2008:

In the 18th century, when people were more religious than today, the average life expectancy was about 35 years. Medical science has come a long way in three hundred years and life spans have more than doubled.

A vet is not allowed to treat a human. I hope that you reconsider your strategies for health, because if anything catastrophic happens, you're going to be in a lot of trouble with this mind set.

One more thing to the government haters: Medicare is run by the government and our seniors have much better health care, on average, than the rest of us. The reason that we are in last place is due to the non-senior care in this country, which is mostly private and not affordable without employer contributions. Employers are not covering enough so employees must to pick up the differences out of their paychecks. Many of these policies suck. However, they are lucky to have any policy at all and they can be dropped at any time since employers are not forced by law to provide it. With the help of (mostly) the Republican Party, they have gouged us with bad management, greed, and waste. Will the government do worse? Well they can't do worse than last place, can they?

People can't retire before 65 anymore, due to the lack of affordable health care, which hurts the younger people who need work.

Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2008

The U.S. Census Bureau announced today that real median household income in the United States fell 3.6 percent between 2007 and 2008, from $52,163 to $50,303. This breaks a string of three years of annual income increases and coincides with the recession that started in December 2007.

The nation's official poverty rate in 2008 was 13.2 percent, up from 12.5 percent in 2007. There were 39.8 million people in poverty in 2008, up from 37.3 million in 2007.

Meanwhile, the number of people without health insurance coverage rose from 45.7 million in 2007 to 46.3 million in 2008, while the percentage remained unchanged at 15.4 percent. (bold mine)

These findings are contained in the report Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2008. The following results for the nation were compiled from information collected in the 2009 Current Population Survey (CPS) Annual Social and Economic Supplement (ASEC):



Newsroom: Income & Wealth: Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2008

 

and medicare is going bankrupt. Lets give the government more power, they have proven they know how to manage money.