Need help with clones & LST, topping/fimming

Discussion in 'Growing Marijuana Indoors' started by Tyler23, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. #1 Tyler23, Sep 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2009
    Okay to start off I got 2 sour diesel clones off a buddy of mine today. He brought em to me in Solo cups and are definitely ready for a transplant which they will get tomorrow. I'll be moving them to 5 quart pots which should keep em happy for awhile.

    On one of the plants I noticed that the tips were turning white and on the other it has a large white spot on one of the leaves. I've done some research and found an awesome sick plants guide over on Complete guide to Sick Plants,pH, and Pest troubles! - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums) and I couldn't seem to match anything exactly to whats going on with my clones as you can see in pic 3 & 4. Could you guys give me some guidance or tips to steer me in the right direction as everything is much appreciated.

    I was also wondering if fimming/topping is still possible with clones seeing as how it has alternating nodes. Also, will I be able to LST it after I move it into the bigger pots?

    You can find my current setup here

    I've since fixed the temperature issues and the box stays at a steady 80 or so during the day which I've heard is just fine and drops to around 72 at night when the lights are off. Humidity has been staying between 40-50%. With this setup I'll be

    Along with the questions about the clones I included some progression pics of a strange looking lil lady that I germinated from some bagseed to experiment with in my new setup and has been growing since 9/12(the last pic is from 9/18, didn't feel like uploading anymore pics at the moment). Is this a mutation or what? The first set of fan leaves grew out as what appears to be 4 leaves but one has like a stub of a fan leaf in the middle that you can see pretty well in the last pic. As of right now(Day 10) the second node has 1 leaf that only has 4 fans and the other has all 5. Just looking for some suggestions I was planning on killing her since I got these clones but Im gonna leave her in the box for now seeing as how theres room and I'm really curious as to whats going on with her. I'll include some update pics tomorrow if questions still arise.

    Thanks in advance for the help guys! :hello:

    Attached Files:

  2. Bump bump
  3. #3 dragonsfire1988, Sep 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2009
    Looks like nute burn to me.
    What kind of soil? You don't mention what kind it is.
    Any nutes? You don't mention that either.
    If you've got Miracle Grow, replace it now or you'll end up with a perpetual problem. Otherwise, FLUSH with Ph correct water and go from there.

    If not nute burn, then a Ph problem...
    do you test your water's Ph before watering?
    What about the run-off?
    These things are very important, as a wacky Ph can really fuck up a plant.

    Read all the stickys here in the Indoor Growing and Beginners section.

    Your seedling could be a mutation or, yet again, a soil/Ph problem. If the soil is okay, and the Ph is okay, then it's most likely a mutation. No biggie there then. Let it grow and see what happens :)

    Again, using any nutes?

    Topping, Fimming, LST are all okay during VEG cycle, regardless of whether or not it's a not to do it during Flower though, cause the plant needs to focus on buds, not vegetative growth. While doing LST, though, you just have to make sure the stem isn't TOO stiff...then you run the risk of snapping it (which may not actually kill the plant, but might retard it a bit) gently, as always.

    By the way, that guide on ICMag will be your best buddy before too long. I've referred to it many times and it has saved my ass (or my girls' asses, anyway). There are some great guides here on GC too, in the Sick Plants section
  4. #4 Tyler23, Sep 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2009

    Well I did get them from a buddy of mine and he got them from a friend of his that grows. So I dunno what kind of soil or what nutes have been used. The only thing I'm sure that was probably used on it was SuperThrive as they came in an empty 1 doz 4 oz box. I'll ask him tomorrow sometime.

    As for the pH questions I went to Home Depot to buy one today and they didn't have the one that I had in mind. Lowes had one that was a rod and had a meter on the top. I think it was like $11, would this be sufficient?

    I have indeed read all of the stickies in the indoor and beginners section. They do not apply specifically to the questions I have.

    As for the topping/fimming/LST I asked if it was possible to still do all of this with a clone that has ALTERNATING nodes, not pairs, and nothing to do with LSTing during veg and flowering... I tried searching around the forums for some help but couldn't find much. All of the guides I've seen have shown plants being topped/fimmed/LST'd with pairs of leafs not alternating.

    With the mutation its been in Scotts soil all its life and has had nothing but water. No nutes. Besides that, I think it could just be mutated because it sprouted with 3 regular sized fake leaves and 1 small fake leaf as you can see in picture 6.

    I've seen a lot of people talk bad about Miracle Gro soil. What is it that everybody doesn't like about it? I have half my plants in Scotts and half in Miracle Gro Moisture Control. They all seem to be looking good and havent shown any signs of sickness.

    Just some things I was curious about, once again guys thanks in advance! :hello:
  5. Reason people don't buy MG soil is because they have fertilizers that are stored at times 3 months up to 9 months worth of feeding. It interrupts growers who decide to use liquid or other nutrients for growth and health. I for one know the pain of using MG. IN vegative state I will say MG was not an issue but once I kicked over the three months and started to use Tiger Bloom and other fert and nutes in flowering , my roots locked up and then I started to get a bunch of def. Over usage of ferts and nutes are inevitable with MG soil. If you plan to use MG only you may work out. But my leaves all fell off before Harvest and I surely had from now knowing the def issues a potassium and Nitrogen issue within flowering. MG soil stores Nitrogen up to three months with most its products. Nitrogen is about .5-12.0 total used in soil ingredients. Now here is the end result though my bud sites were irregularly grown my ganja was crystally and dank smelling. Got us considerably high to be bag seed. Now here is another truth over ferted weed can be considerably harsh. Bad tasting and hard to smoke. You have to pass around the lighter always. I really didnt have this issue per say. All mine were a little weird looking but smoke was very rich and taste was out of this world. There are some major issues that will possibly present themselves. But from my experience if you cut down on using anything else you can probably wing it to your benefit.

    Okay way too long! Here at work bored but hope this helps.

    APZ BTW I had over 60+plants and ended up with 16 in flowering and half pound of bud!

    ALL FROM MG soil,
  6. Alright I see I was wondering about that. I noticed it on the bag and didn't know if it would be beneficial or not. They're all already well settled in the pots they are in so theres no hope for transplanting them now. Oh well, this is my first grow and this is an experiment.

    Can I flush the soil of the harmful nutes in the MG soil? The Scotts soil has very little nutes already added so I think they'll be fine for sure. Dunno bout the MG grows in the long run.
  7. And btw thanks! That was very helpful haha I'm just high right now and forgetting shit and leaving things out. But damn if you were successful with it then that gives me some confidence for the future.
  8. Don't stress yourself man honestly. Check my posts! I have a bunch of picstures from my first grow and again ALL MG soil! Your plants will do well in Vegative state. You will probably want to flush about 2 months and a half. With 2x times the pot size. That will rinse most of the nutes out. Make sure your plant has plenty drainage so your roots don't rot. Its not as bad of a soil if it didnt have the time released soil to accompany it.

  9. #9 dragonsfire1988, Sep 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2009
    LST can be done at any time, regardless of alternating nodes. It's just best to do it during Veg.

    Topping/FIMming should work out fine even with alternating nodes. Give it a shot, it woudn't hurt.

    Oh, that Ph tester you mentioned, the rod, will NOT work. It is crap. I bought it too and I wish I hadn't.

    Save yourself the time and run to a Pet the fish department they will have liquid PH testers. It's vial with some drops that change the color of the water to determine Ph. API Brand has a very reliable one for about $5. If you have the money, though, search around for a truncheon tester or a cheaper digital one. Digital Ph testers will run you at least $50, and those are the cheaper/less efficient ones. The best ones are about $100 and up.

  10. Haha once again man I understand about LSTing during veg, I just didn't know if it was still possible with alternating nodes.

    As for the topping/fimming, you say it should work out fine but have you tried it? Since there aren't paired nodes, there is no symmetrical places to top them, should I just pluck the new growths on the individual nodes?
  11. Oh and thanks man, saved me $10! I'll make a run to Petsmart and pick some of those up here in a bit.
  12. #12 dragonsfire1988, Sep 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2009

    Dude, LST is fine with alternating nodes. It doesn't matter. All you're doing there is bending the plant over...node location doesn't matter much. I already said it is fine regardless of alternating nodes.

    I have not topped a plant with alternating nodes, so just don't listen to me if you don't want to. I said give it a shot to find out. You won't kill your plant. I would imagine that it would work out the same way, or similar. It might promote new growth, like you'd get two branches coming out of that one node...that's what I am imagining. If you do try it, let us know how it turns out.
    The Topping/FIMming thread under the Beginners section might have more in depth information, so check there too, like search that thread for "alternating nodes" or something.

    Yeah dude, glad I could save you the money. I wish someone had told me the same shit...I ended up buying one of those probe things and it totally failed. Was pissed about it, but that's what I get for not looking into it before making the purchase. You'll be pretty happy with those drops...the color guide can be hard to read at first but you'll get the hang of it after a few test runs.
  13. Alright yeah I started another thread over in the absolute beginners section asking specifically about topping/FIMming with alternating nodes and it seems like a few people have this same question. So I'm gonna try it out on one of my clones and see what happens! Wish me luck! Lol

    My dad used to have a 90 gallon salt water fish tank and I've used those strips to test the pH of the water for him as well as seen him do it himself. I appreciate the tip, I've worked with them but I never would've associated them with my plants haha I never thought to use them that way. So, good thinking man, thanks again!

  14. Yah, good call on the new thread. Hopefully you'll get more/better responses. And gooooood luck with the clones. Keep us updated, maybe start a journal if it goes that far :)

    And I wasn't talking about the paper strips for Ph testing...those are only a step above the probe. I was talking about liquid DROPS...the box contains the liquid test solution and a little test tube in which to hold the water you want to test. I hope you didn't get the strips :eek: but it's better than nothing, ya know. The strips will give you an idea at the least.
  15. when I fim a clone, it usually works every time with 2-4 new growth shoots. I have done it 4x before, all with success. It is not that big a deal either way man. from your pics, it looks like those are sun spots on the first few pics. perhaps there was water on that leaf which magnified the light intensity locally. perhaps your reflective material if u use any intensified the light into that one spot. the mutated plant also looks like a heat/excessive light issue to me, as well. since u mentioned ST, adding more than a few drops to a tiny seedling could cause such mutations as well. i have seen UFO LEDs cause the same mutations as well.

    my suggestion to you is write down whatever steps or things you add/subtract from the plant every day. take lots of notes & just observe man. your first grow is just to learn. having high yield expectations is just unreasonable too. just keep in mind how you can improve things based upon your past implementations & go from there. you seem to have good friends & internet, so your all set. good luck man.

  16. I forgot to mention that the pictures of the clones are the way they looked when I received them. Since they've been in my grow box(2 days) they seem to be taking to the light nicely and sprouting new growth. Good shit! :smoking:

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