Sorry this is such a long read guys, but it is pretty interesting/cool in my opinion So yea....was in the woods yesterday with one of my best mates...and offered him a bit of chocolate to which he refused. This all came of my elaborate attempt at getting him to eat it (god knows why i cared in the first place ). I wrote it out whilest high on paper last night and copied it pretty much word for word onto the computer, here it is, i hope some of you find it interesting If it looks like bullshit to begin with...i urge you to read to the end. I'm not sayin i believe this...just that whilest it can not be proven it can not be disproven either, really. I: Idea 1 I offered him the chocolate, he said he’d pass. I went on to explain that would he want it, however, if he; closed his eyes, there was a total absence of anything, including darkness. There was no perceivable stand to walk on, yet he found himself walking along something that held him up. He imagined this could be called the floor. He walked along the floor, with no definition of (and also completely oblivious of) space, time, travel or mass yet he saw an object. He walked over. Picked it up. Ate it. The seed was planted and his idea was born. He had now thought of his own idea of existence. He was green, trees, lakes etc. So did I, but in a different way. Those that were not born were simply not part of the idea, yet. We realised there was no God as described, only that “God” was maybe just the birth of an idea. He and I both described and understood things - but neither of us could prove that we saw the same thing - for the simple reason that everyone thought of their own ideas. How do you describe a tree? I see a tree as a tree in my reality…I describe it to you, you understand and agree…but how do we know we see the same thing? This means that everyone agrees on not what they see - but how it is transmitted through language. Everyone is their own God, as they brought themselves and there own interpretation of the world around by simply thinking it into existence. All that exists is you and your ideas, alongside your unique interpretations. How do you describe nothing? Same as everyone else? You may think so, to a degree. I don’t think so. Summary: Without knowing anything and without anyone knowing anything about them, that person can not exist and - to them - nothing does. Then a thought comes about. This thought brings on consciousness and an idea of reality. They, and their world, are born. Suddenly everything is. Is that thought “God” by definition? And are you this “God” as you generated the thought in the first place? It would be logical to think so. I could describe a standard object, such as a rock, and you would understand it, yet we can not prove we saw the same thing. A rock to you could be totally different than a rock to I, yet we think we understand it as we understand each others words. It is comparative to explaining a colour to a blind person - impossible. Logically this would be the same for everything - meaning we could all have our own way of seeing this world, and it is all just based around an idea and how we interpret it. It is therefore possible that we all live in our own individual reality, created from our thoughts. The likelihood of more than one person thinking up the exact same reality is relatively small when one considers the vast range of ideas that the human mind creates non stop. We are all our own “Gods” as we gave birth to our take on the universe. Therefore the idea of all of organised religion is false, as by their definition of God you are it. The only certainty in any of our worlds is the genius of the mind. The need to follow this idea as a religion is non existent, as there are no rules. There is no need for them as the people that see this see logic, and will be guided to do the right things through common sense - not restricting rules and regulations. And there you have it...thoughts? It is pretty epic haha
First of all... the definition of God is as follows... the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, deity: any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force. Secondly, the rock you see is the rock I see. The tree you see is the tree I see. Thirdly, you were just stoned and your thought is not profound or revolutionary. Sorry to poop on your parade.
Haha, ace first reply Although i may have been incorrect about the definition of God...how do you prove we both see the rock the same? I don't believe it either, just found it interesting how it can not be proven otherwise...well...not totally maybe?
What do you mean that it cannot be proven? Describe to me the tree and rock you see. I see a grayish rock and a green tree, not nitpicking on the color variation throughout. Color is the same for everybody unless you've got a condition that makes it otherwise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_spectrum
Well, first of, about the colour thing...who is to say what, for example, pink is? If someone sees pink as green...whos to say they aren't right, and that isn't the real pink? And about the rock, i just mean that whilest you just described it to me...who is to say your definition of what you described me isn't totally different than that of mine? I see a greyish rock too...but my idea of a "greyish rock" might be totally different to yours. Like i said...it is just a theory...
My previous post shows a link to the color spectrum. We 'know' what colors are, and the way we describe them is through their wavelength. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_vision
Well i didn't write it to argue about it anyway man, just like i said...i just found it interesting. You're probaby right in the endit was just a theory and i generally don't believe theorys, yet it doesnt hurt to stop n think "outside the box" for a while, as cliched as it sounds.
Look up existentialism, kinda ties in with what you are talking about. But i agree with you, perception IS reality. The only reality we know, is the one we have, which we have come to understand and perceive in entirely our own way, for nobodies mind is the same, all are unique, even in the most miniscule of ways. How we perceive things, is part nature, our genetics, how our mind works, and part nurture, all of the experiences we have had, which culminate to every precise moment that we are living in. One could say that every "moment" of time (if one can break down time into pieces, if time even exists at ALL) is really a perio dof infinite existence, and the only reason we see prgression, change, passing, is because our conciousness rationalizes it, and percieves one moment from another, not just a full, unlimited existence. Im pretty sure i broke completely off from what you are saying though, so I'll leave it there
I'm not trying to be a dick but why theorize and think about stuff that isn't fact or is just outright incorrect?
1: It is interesting. 2: It very well could have been correct from the knowledge i have/had at the time. I'm pretty sure at first most theorys at first seemed pretty rediculous, but without them we would never progress so...
Thanks for the reply man, sounds interesting. I shall be sure to check it up, all this stuff really gets me thinking..if that is all it does in the end it's all good with me
Duke, you have to understand, its not that we dont see the same colours, or dont see the same materials, or whatever. Its that all the knowledge we have, and through all of our different experiences, affects our perceptions differently. While we may be looking at the "same" rock, that it has the "same" texture, and the "same" dimensions, to you and me, it is NOT the same rock. We perceive it differently, because our upbringings cause us to look at EVERYTHING differently than one another, even if just minutely. What you KNOW is really, is really only in your head. The whole of existence, of reality, to you, is unique to yourself, for nobody can share the exact same perception of what is reality. We all live on the same universe, but humans defined what is real, what reality is, so every INDIVIDUAL defines what reality is, and so every individual has their own idea of what reality is, and it is all in their heads, unique to their own. Question conventiality. Try to understand what others deem impossible to comprehend. Always bend the limits of knowledge, of fact, of fiction. Because if you didn't, if I didn't, if none of us did, then there wouldn't be any new growth! We woul djust be stuck in a rut in society, saying "this is what is. there is no other way for this to be. to think otherwise, is to be wrong" There is never wrong. There is "not right" obviously, but there is NEVER wrong. Just, a change of perception.
I can't help but think you are being slightly pessimistic here man, and only trying to put me down It is interesting because it interests me. And even though it may well be fiction..don't you ever find anything fiction interesting? Films, books etc? But i shall leave it with "what J Pimp said"....
When you're trying to say that the green I see is not the green you see, then yes you're wrong or color blind, but still wrong. If you come here with an idea, at least have a basic understanding of that which you're talking about. All humans have identical basic genetic templates. Color perception is based on evolution, and the conditions in which a species evolves. We see in the same color because it has helped us survive, survival of the fittest. The retina is designed the same way in all humans. The fact that humans can harmonize together and play games means that we all have the ability to measure distances the same way, see colors the same way, and hear things the same way. Now if the OP had been a martian, then his idea would have more merit but we're talking about humans here. Now if you can disprove any of the information I've provided, I and the entire scientific community would be very interested.
All right...well you win then. It was just a bit of fun. Thanks for not being a douche about it though man
I'm not pissed at all man, i just thought you could have been a bit more nice about it is all, as lame as it sounds. I'm not the type of guy to get pissed at some stranger over the internet
If you read over what i said, duke, you completely deviated what i was talking about. I dont even think the whole "seeing different colours, even though its the same colour" thing was that dude main point. Of course its completely logical that we see the same colours, it wouldnt make sense gentically if we didnt. Thats not at all my point. Go back and reread my last post on the first page, hopefully youll get what i was trying to say. Its more saying that aside from logic, and a rational understanding of biochemistry, we have NO way to know if we TRULY do see the samec colours. But again, that was beside the point entirely. it was more the fact that reality is individual and unique, that we each see our own world, and our existance is assured by what we see and know. Basically you picked on one point, and schose to ignore the entirety of the topic.