My (different) Take on the London Riots

Discussion in 'General' started by Toosick, Aug 12, 2011.

  1. It sucks that they're now rioting aimlessly without a cause, but it's great to see people remind their government that their power comes from the consent of the governed.

    The entire reason a government can make laws is because WE give our consent to allow them to govern us. WE choose to listen to them. Theoretically (and quite literally, as Gandhi showed us) if we choose to disobey them, they effectively lose a significant amount of power and control.

    People need to look at the big picture. They're choosing to only talk about the youth who are involved for no other reason than to steal things. Most of them probably don't give a shit about the guy the cop killed. That isn't a good thing. What is a good thing is the people who gathered to protest and tell their government they're not okay with what happened.

    Now unfortunately (as just about any government will do, including ours) the government chose to just ignore the protesters because it doesn't require a response. Their line of thinking is "who gives a fuck if they're upset? They'll stand there waving their signs for a little bit and after nothing changes they'll get tired and go home and forget about it." This is part of why protests can escalate to riots (think about some of the riots during the civil rights movements) because the people realize the government will just ignore them so they start doing things to force the government to react and take them seriously. It's human nature, much like a kid who acts up to get his parents' attention.

    Bottom line the British government is to blame. If they would have taken action to SATISFY the protestors (such as conduct an investigation or introduce a bill/ordinance to prevent future incidents) and operate a government for the people by the people LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO the protests never would have escalated to this much violence if they would have dealt with the issue rather than ignoring the people. The British government is lying in the bed that it made.

    So really what started as a good thing turned sour because the government chose to not do their job.
  2. #2 Lenny., Aug 12, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
    I kindly disagree. The shooting happened on August 4th, riots broke out August 6th.

    This is an issue of mob mentality. People in large groups are stupid. How can one person demand the government do more then they are already doing? It takes more than two days to conduct an investigation (which they are doing).

    But when its a mob mentality, it can easily get out of control when immediate results are not achieved. You see it in America. We elect one party, demand immediate results, when immediate results are not achieved, we elect the other party. Bleh. This isn't 48 hour mystery.

    This isn't about the British government being democratic. It's about a reaction to alleged police brutality which went bad. I say alleged because there is still an ongoing investigation. I don't know how you can expect them to introduce any sort of bill in such a short period of time.

    Sometimes, people just get out of control. I was watching a video, where I learned that the British government cut down on police funding, including riot police. The remaining riot police were not trained to handle the situation. It easily got out of hand.
  3. Granny's observation on this mess- Happy people do not riot!

  4. I should clarify. The government should have reached out to the people (most likely via press conference) and simply say they recognize the concerns of the people and will be working towards a resolution.

    The aimless riots that it has become are bad. I'm saying the roots of this entire thing (the protest) were good, but turned into something bad because of the government's mistake of ignoring the people.
  5. #5 Ralta, Aug 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2011
  6. [ame=]PM: 'We will end UK riots by any means necessary' - YouTube[/ame]

    Not the best way to go at it, but understandable.
    Rioting is different then protesting and should be stopped.
  7. There obviously not very happy people though Haha...

    I dont think the people should riot citys because of a corrupt goverment issue.. No matter how big of a problem it may be, Going wild is not the way to handle it... People In mobs dont care what they do... Weather it be breaking a window or setting a store on fire.. becuase 100's of others are doing the same thing around them...

    Its just total chaos and will solve nothing.
  8. #8 LCM, Aug 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2011

    Although we would like to think it does, no, it really doesn't.

    It's more along the lines of; they give us their consent to live where we live and consume what we consume if we agree to abide by their laws and regulations. If we don't want to listen to them there are obvious consequences. The proletariat has little to no influence over governmental decisions. If we choose to disobey them, they don't lose any power or control, they simply exercise more of it and make an example out of those who chose to oppose them. Full blown revolution is light years different from protests and riots.

    The mob mentality is inherent to human nature. Whenever people congregate and unite against a common enemy, the situation will always get out of hand and more bad is generally done than good. Feelings of individuality and opinions subside, our sense of humanity fades and we resort to primitive behaviour. This is why protests escalate to riots. I can't think of more than a couple of large-scale protests in history that didn't end up escalating into riots.

    I don't know if you were spoiled as a child, but tell me what you think happens when a child acts up in an effort to get what he or she wants -- are they successful? No.

    People who actually think the government has some kind of moral issue with a bunch of idiots hurting themselves in an attempt to further their own personal agendas (no matter how virtuous they may be) are foolish. Rioting and all of the childish bullshit that goes with it serves little purpose. In the government's eyes it is nothing more than a minor inconvenience. It's like a homeless man standing outside the entrance to a restaurant scaring the customers, it's just bad for business.

    This is what ultimately happens, riot or no riot. The only difference is that the protestors might get some cuts, scrapes and bruises, or have to spend the night in jail before going home and forgetting about it. Against a small minority, the higher authority will always fight fire with fire -- they have more of it and have nothing to lose, there is no real threat to their authority.

    A protest is the best excuse in the world to incite a riot, it would have happened regardless. Oh btw, they are conducting investigations and formulating ideas to prevent this type of thing from happening again in the future. But these things take time, there are time lags involved. The government is not some kind of omnipotent presence who can arbitrarily resolve the nation's inner turmoil with a snap of their fingers. All that the rioting did was slow down the process as now all of these goons have to be dealt with and property damages must be assessed.

    It turned sour for reasons I have already mentioned. Basically, people suck. We are clothed animals and nothing more.

    They ARE doing their job, they create their own job descriptions. The reality is they have their own agenda which is drastically different and often contrary to that of the public, despite what they allow us to believe. The same is true in every nation. The thought of a "government of the people, by the people, and for the people", for the most part, has always been a pipe dream. You are right, the British government (and just about every government in the world) are lying in their beds.

    And you can bet they are comfy as fuck.
  9. As someone who actually lives in this country, where it happened, here's my take:

    There was fuck all "political" about them. It was greed.

    You see these fucking black kids on the TV, saying it's about standing up and it's all for a cause...

    FUCKING BOLLOX YOU CUNT, you're stealing that pair of trainers because you want them. Not for any political reason. You're burning that shop down because you're a destructive little shit, not for political reasons.
  10. Have you seen Pat Condell's video about it? I think it's very well said about the issue.
  11. Is he the old boy?

    If so, yeah, he spoke a lot of truth in my opinion.
  12. I disagree they didnt have a clue what they were rioting about. Everyone involved in the looting that ws interviewed by a news reporter had a different excuse for why they were doing it. That guy was carrying a gun and was a dealer. The only reason i can see to have a gun in a country they are completely illegal is if your going to use it. If he didnt get shot it would have been someone else if not more.

    Alot of them have been saying they were rioting because the government dont listen. I watched a programme last night, a debate sort of thing given them a chance to give their oppinions. Ended up being a shouting match. If they cannot listen to each other how do they expect the government to listen to them .
  13. They aren't "completely illlegal"; just incredibly hard to gain access to, and keep...

    IE, I used rifles at school for target shooting, and for cadet training, but the regulation and carrying of said arm was really bloody strict.

    They can also be used, if you have a permit for a shotgun, it just costs a lot of money, through the application fees and the hoops one need to jump through in order to keep a firearm (safety cabinets, police checks etc)

    People just use the 'government doesn't listen' argument for explaining away their actions and trying to remove themselves from blame. As I said in another thread, British politics, and British democracy in general has not reached such a point that such violent and anti-social measures are necessary.

    Many of the problems are in peoples mindsets now, not necessarilly the fault of government; what with the instant gratification we all have come to expect, or expecting top notch public facilities, when the treasury can barely keep the economy running...
  14. Idunno why but I thought of green street hooligans. Good movie
  15. I agree with you, man. But the people are to blame as well since they chose to break into private shops and steal from the people instead of fucking things up for the government. What they should have done is setting fire to government buldings and such and not steal for each other. See what I'm sayin'? But yes, most of the blame is the government's.

    And I tried to explain this to my grandmother, but she only saw what the people did wrong and not what the government did. I tried to tell her that if the people just accept things like this and have small protests then nothing will be done because what will a protest do? Nothing. Like you said, the people will just get tired and walk back home and forget about it.
  16. [​IMG]

    London riots 2011 suspects: Photos released, do you know these looters? | Mail Online

    I'm pretty sure I see people of all races who were involved, in fact it seems as if the fucking black kids were a minority.

  17. Yeh i should have said completely illegal for a drug dealer from the "ghetto" to carry a handgun.
  18. [​IMG]
  19. In the article I posted I counted 160 faces of which 67 were darker than white. That is a minority. No one will know which race had the largest presence during those riots unless a survey was conducted in which demographics of the rioters was tallied. I live in Canada and not the UK so I do not have a first hand account of what happened. I just find it strange that you really believe the majority of protesters were black when according to the 2001 UK census they account for exactly 3.2% of the population (I added mixed race in there as well because I know white people think of them as watered down blacks.) On the other hand white people account for over 90% of the UK population. None of that proves who was in the majority, but there is a hell of a lot more information to validate my argument than you have backing yours. Please stop being so close minded.

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