Discussion in 'Growing Marijuana Indoors' started by David Root, Oct 25, 2022.

  1. Can't get rid of them. I tried spraying with soapy water, I bought a no pest strip, I dusted it with 7.

    Still spider mites.

    7 on top of the leaf, bugs on the bottom.

    Miracle grow dirt plus some pearlite.
    Purchased clone at 12".

    Had long roots, put in 5 gal bucket with holes and gravel in the bottom.

    Plant is now 2 Mos old, 24" tall.

    Florescent daylight bulbs.


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  2. Athena IPM in a foliar spray, or Lost Coast Plant Therapy, also in a foliar. Either would likely help quite a bit. Both can be used through flower.
    There are more severe chemicals that can be used, but I like to go soft first with the stuff that isn't nasty. Athena IPM has knocked out Thrips a couple times for me.
  3. that plant is not saveable and or not worth saving the damage is too severe take the whole thing bucket and all and get it out of your house then bleach entire area and start over sorry to tell you but the sooner you do it the sooner you can start over
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  4. a person could save it. But its not worth it . Soak the plant in water use your fingers to wash it . Continue the process for 14 days along with the 7. It will kill them all . But again the surround area there will be bugs. Your entire grow area is full of mites these bugs travel. I would toss it .
  5. You dont have enough light . looks like a PM issue too
    Pyrethrin - Wikipedia
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    Chemical structure of some pyrethrins: pyrethrin I (R = CH3), pyrethrin II (R = CO2CH3)
    The pyrethrins are a class of organic compounds normally derived from Chrysanthemum cinerariifolium that have potent insecticidal activity by targeting the nervous systems of insects. Pyrethrin naturally occurs in chrysanthemum flowers and is often considered an organic insecticide when it is not combined with piperonyl butoxide or other synthetic adjuvants.[1] Their insecticidal and insect-repellent properties have been known and used for thousands of years.

    Pyrethrins are gradually replacing organophosphates and organochlorides as the pesticides of choice as the latter compounds have been shown to have significant and persistent toxic effects to humans.

    Physical and chemical properties of some pyrethrins.
    Group Pyrethrin I Pyrethrin II
    Chemical compound Pyrethrin I[2][3] Cinerin I[4][3] Jasmolin I[5] Pyrethrin II[6][3] Cinerin II[7][3] Jasmolin II[8]
    Chemical structure [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Chemical formula C21H28O3 C20H28O3 C21H30O3 C22H28O5 C21H28O5 C22H30O5
    Molecular mass (g/mol) 328.4 316.4 330.5 372.5 360.4 374.5
    Boiling point (°C) 170 137 ? 200 183 ?
    Vapor pressure (mmHg) 2.03 x 10−5 1.13 x 10−6 ? 3.98 x 10−7 4.59 x 10−7 ?
    Solubility in water (mg/L) 0.2 0.085 ? 9.0 0.03 ?
    The pyrethrins occur in the seed cases of the perennial plant pyrethrum (Chrysanthemum cinerariaefolium), which has long been grown commercially to supply the insecticide. Pyrethrins have been used as an insecticide for thousands of years. It is believed that the Chinese crushed chrysanthemum plants and used the powder as an insecticide as early as 1000 BC. It was widely known that the Chou Dynasty in China widely used pyrethrin for its insecticide properties.[9] For centuries, crushed Chrysanthemum flowers have been used in Iran to produce Persian Powder, an insecticide for household use. Pyrethrins were identified as the potent chemical in the Chrysanthemum plants responsible for the insecticidal properties in the crushed flowers around 1800 in Asia. In the Napoleonic Wars, French soldiers used the flowers to keep away fleas and body lice.[9][dubiousdiscuss]

    Cyclopropanation reaction producing chrysanthemyl diphosphate, an intermediate in the biosynthesis of chrysanthemic acid
    Well after their use as insecticides began, their chemical structures were determined by Hermann Staudinger and Lavoslav Ružička in 1924.[10] Pyrethrin I (CnH28O3) and pyrethrin II (CnH28O5) are structurally related esters with a cyclopropane core. Pyrethrin I is a derivative of (+)-trans-chrysanthemic acid.[11][12] Pyrethrin II is closely related, but one methyl group is oxidized to a carboxymethyl group, the resulting core being called pyrethric acid. Knowledge of their structures opened the way for the production of synthetic analogues, which are called pyrethroids. Pyrethrins are classified as terpenoids. The key step in the biosynthesis of the naturally occurring pyrethrins involves two molecules of dimethylallyl pyrophosphate, which join to form a cyclopropane ring by the action of the enzyme chrysanthemyl diphosphate synthase.[13]

    Tanacetum cinerariifolium also called the Dalmatian chrysanthemum
    Commercial pyrethrin production mainly takes place in mountainous equatorial zones. The commercial cultivation of the Dalmatian chrysanthemum (C. cinerariifolium) takes place at an altitude of 1600 to 3000 meters[14] above sea level.[15] This is done because pyrethrin concentration has been shown to increase as elevation increases to this level. Growing these plants does not require much water because semiarid conditions and a cool winter deliver optimal pyrethrin production. The Persian chrysanthemum C. coccineum also produces pyrethrins but at a much lower level. Both may be planted in low-altitude zones in dry soil, but the pyrethrin level is lower.[14]

    Most of the world's supply of pyrethrin and C. cinerariaefolium comes from Kenya, which produces the most potent flowers. Other countries include Croatia (in Dalmatia) and Japan. The flower was first introduced into Kenya and the highlands of Eastern Africa during the late 1920s. Since the 2000s, Kenya has produced about 70% of the world's supply of pyrethrum.[16] A substantial amount of the flowers is cultivated by small-scale farmers who depend on it as a source of income. It is a major source of export income for Kenya and source of over 3,500 additional jobs. About 23,000 tons were harvested in 1975. The active ingredients are extracted with organic solvents to give a concentrate containing the six types of pyrethrins: pyrethrin I, pyrethrin II, cinerin I, cinerin II, jasmolin I, and jasmolin II.[17]

    Processing the flowers to cultivate the pyrethrin is often a lengthy process, and one that varies from area to area. For instance, in Japan, the flowers are hung upside down to dry which increases pyrethrin concentration slightly.[14] To process pyrethrin, the flowers must be crushed. The degree to which the flower is crushed has an effect on both the longevity of the pyrethrin usage and the quality. The finer powder produced is better suited for use as an insecticide than the more coarsely crushed flowers. However, the more coarsely crushed flowers have a longer shelf life and deteriorate less.[14]

    Use as an insecticide[edit]
    Pyrethrin is most commonly used as an insecticide and has been used for this purpose since the 1900s.[17] In the 1800s, it was known as "Persian powder", "Persian pellitory", and "zacherlin". Pyrethrins delay the closure of voltage-gated sodium channels in the nerve cells of insects, resulting in repeated and extended nerve firings. This hyperexcitation causes the death of the insect due to loss of motor coordination and paralysis.[18] Resistance to pyrethrin has been bypassed by pairing the insecticide with synthetic synergists such as piperonyl butoxide. Together, these two compounds prevent detoxification in the insect, ensuring insect death.[19] Synergists make pyrethrin more effective, allowing lower doses to be effective. Pyrethrins are effective insecticides because they selectively target insects rather than mammals due to higher insect nerve sensitivity, smaller insect body size, lower mammalian skin absorption, and more efficient mammalian hepatic metabolism.[20]

    Although pyrethrin is a potent insecticide, it also functions as an insect repellent at lower concentrations. Observations in food establishments demonstrate that flies are not immediately killed, but are found more often on windowsills or near doorways. This suggests, due to the low dosage applied, that insects are driven to leave the area before dying.[21] Because of their insecticide and insect repellent effect, pyrethrins have been very successful in reducing insect pest populations that affect humans, crops, livestock, and pets, such as ants, spiders, and lice, as well as potentially disease-carrying mosquitoes, fleas, and ticks.

    As pyrethrins and pyrethroids are increasingly being used as insecticides, the number of illnesses and injuries associated with exposure to these chemicals is also increasing.[22] However, few cases leading to serious health effects or mortality in humans have occurred, which is why pyrethroids are labeled "low-toxicity" chemicals and are ubiquitous in home-care products.[20] Pyrethrins are widely regarded as better for the environment, and can be harmless if used only in the field with localized sprays, as UV exposure breaks them down into harmless compounds. Additionally, they have little lasting effect on plants, degrading naturally or being degraded by the cooking process.[23]

    Specific pest species that have been successfully controlled by pyrethrum include: potato, beet, grape, and six-spotted leafhopper, cabbage looper, celery leaf tier, Say's stink bug, twelve-spotted cucumber beetle, lygus bugs on peaches, grape and flower thrips, and cranberry fruitworm.[24]
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  6. You could clip some clones and save those
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  7. For years I grew with florescent daylight bulbs. back in the 1970s its an art and can be done but tech has moved heaps since then, use the cool whites 50/50 mixed with warn white during your veg, come 12x12 flip to warm whites only, I stripped out all the lower growth 12 inches from the top as the light don't reach that far, a cheap light meter will prove that, as a plus it increase venting heaps too thus this method can be used in a closet even a submarine avoid stacking bulbs/tubes over 200 watts as its then cheaper to buy a low end HPS 250w. (use a conversion bulb) the useless 150w is low light but high heat
    you could cut them down to 12 inches clean the room, apply bug killer and slip them into veg again, but a restart is most likely ..keep dogs and pets outta the room

    good luck
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  8. Thanks everyone. Its looking better, but I see its a never ending thing with the eggs.

    I was looking at the leaves watching the mites run around with the 7 on the leaf. Wes surprised, especially after I read all the cautions on the package. I tried to buy a dust applicater, so I could get it on the bottom of the leaves, but no one had one. Or knew what I was talking about, They said just shake it on.

    The mites probably came with the plant.
    I have seeds for autos. Its in Veg, has been 18/6. Got worse when I put in new bulbs.

    Need to think.. I could clone just the top. Keep it small and clean it every day. Will let you know.

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  9. !

    You got a hot mess going on there friend.
    That's a lot of work to bring that plant back around. It's savable almost everything is savable in my opinion. I haven't lost too many plants. But that plant there is definitely on the south side of life. You can save it. But I would not bring it in your house though right now. No way... if you did bring it in your house I would keep it in a very sealed up area bagged...
    but I wouldn't bring it in my house if I was you....
    Unless you Want some spider mites eggs in your house and spores of powdery mildew.? They both have a way of searching out plants. Anywhere.

    You got a PM problem. it's mega serious mega PM problem that plant has. The spider mites is the least of your problems and the easiest thing to get over.

    But the Powdery mildew on the other hand is a mother

    I use Lost Coast plant therapy and have for years. The guy I work for uses it on his commercial crop buys it by the 5 gallon bucket. Works great you can cut it down you can use it full strength. And you can use it right up to the day of harvest.
    But if you were just fighting powdery mildew you could use potassium carbonate at two tablespoons per gallon of water. Works great.
    20210819_082741.jpg 20210819_082731.jpg
    Plant therapy is good for it all...

    But with the PM problem you got going on there it's likely to be Systemic by now.... Again it can be saved.... but you got a lot of work to do if it's systemic...

    Now you got to ask yourself...
    is it really worth it.???

    If it were me...that plant right there would be gone... Unless it was some strain that's elite you can't get no more possibly never ever see the seeds again type situation. Then maybe I might try to save it...?

    But otherwise I would put that plant in the trash and start over with clean everything.

    Whatever you do clean with bleach everything that was under that plant or anywhere near that plant or if a breeze was blowing that spores of the powdery mildew or even one of them damn spider mites could blow off onto a wall a curtain the rug and so on. Because spider mites can be asexual, But a female spider mite can lay up to a million eggs. But they can't breed if there's a breeze blowing on them.
    But them things can come back and haunt you. but again they're easy to take care of that's not an issue...the powdery mildew though on the other hand that's a bad do... and it's hard as hell to get rid of...

    I'm here to tell you...
    I got the stuff in my floor boards and my basement ceiling 5 year's ago and I had to paint my entire basement with mold preventative paint from Zimmerman 12 gallons at 30 freaking bucks a gallon. Ain't fun been there and done that. I've got the t-shirt and a hat....

    But if you want to know more about saving it? PM me and I'll give you a list of things that you can use. As home remedies even for systemic...

    But it's going to be costly for systemic anything cure...

    Good luck man happy growing.
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  10. The 'plant is savable.
    There is all kinds of stuff in your kitchen to deal with "PM
    Baking soda milk lemon or lime juice , Its all about the ph levels.
    Now is the time to learn about declaring war on pm and insects .
  11. Is the "PM" you're referring to just the Seven dust used and outlined in the OP?
  12. Looks like both to me... ?
  13. #13 David Root, Oct 31, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
    I ditched the plant.

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