Maxibloom N question

Discussion in 'Coco Coir' started by sparce, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. OK I just harvested my first coco coir plant and have to say wet she looks might fine. New plants are getting CNS17 Bloom during bloom stage though after reading some here lately I think many are using Maxibloom.But the Nitrogen seems high. When I grew in peat I never gave more than a trace amount of N in bud. Yes, leaves turned yellow and fell off but that's what I was told NO nitrogen.
    Is it OK to feed Maxibloom until the last two weeks. As of now I cut off CNS17 at 4 weeks bud.
  2. If I were you I would get cns17 ripe. It has less N than the bloom and really finishes off the buds nicely.
    I had a blue mistic that I ran heads 6/9 and got some really nice buds but I switched to cns17 and on a clone I got almost double the yield and the plant wasn't even vegged as long as the mother.
  3. Hey sparce...Nothing but Maxibloom is used in the kiss method to veg and flower...
    Way I learned was that nitrogen % should be 1/2 the amount of phosphorus for flowering plants.
    Think maxibloom would be alright but, not sure I would change my nutes if having good results with cns17.
  4. Thanks folks. Guess I'll stay with the CNS17 for now. But the Maxibloom will have to get a shot. Sometime. Love coco. So easy and great yields.
  5. maxibloom has the nitrogen in a weird form i would go for a more minimally processed kelp extract (assuming you'd need it because kelp meal is unavailable).
    Information Sheet
    Maxicrop® Seaweed Plant Food Concentrate.
    Maxicrop® Seaweed Plant Food Concentrate has been specifically formulated for use on a wide range of plants, ranging from
    indoor plants to fruit, vegetables, natives, flowers, shrubs, trees and lawns. The 100% soluble Maxicrop® Seaweed Extract, which
    contains over 60 different, naturally balanced minerals, trace elements and growth factors ensures a readily available supply of
    essential micro-nutrients to the plant. These nutrients are not usually obtainable from many other fertilisers. Maxicrop® Seaweed
    Extract is further fortified by the addition of soluble forms of trace elements, Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium. Use
    Maxicrop® Seaweed Plant Food Concentrate every 10 to 14 days, for magnificent results on all your plants.
    MAXICROP® Seaweed Plant Food Concentrate provides :
    - a natural, seaweed based, nutrient source for all plants.
    - a wide range of naturally balanced micro-nutrients.
    - strong root development for plants.
    - increased chlorophyll content of leaves.
    - more efficient use of nutrients and applied fertilisers.
    - increased resistance to fungal and disease attack.
    - increased resistance to insect attack, eg. aphids.
    - additional 100% soluble Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium.
    - environment-friendly fertiliser; no offensive smell.
    - liquid form for easy dilution and application when watering.
    - organic matter to improve potting mix structure and encourage microbial action.
    Weak Solution 6mL in 4L of water
    Normal Solution 12mL in 4L of water
    Strong Solution 18mL in 4L of water
    Maxicrop® Seaweed Plant Food Concentrate is available in a range of sizes, from 250mL to
    20L. At a rate of 12mL per 4L of water, a 1L bottle makes up 333 litres of applied solution.
    %W/V %W/V
    Seaweed Extract 7.00 Copper (Cu) as Sulphate 0.05
    Nitrogen (N) as Urea 4.60 Zinc (Zn) as Sulphate 0.03
    Phosphorus (P) as Water Soluble 1.20 Manganese (Mn) as Sulphate 0.03
    Potassium (K as Phosphate 3.10 Boron (B) as Borate 0.01
    Sulphur (S) as Sulphate 0.06 Molybdenum (Mo) as Molybdate 0.0002
    Iron (Fe) as EDTA 0.05 Biuret (Max) 0.04
  6. Morning sparce,
    I used MaxiBloom & the KISS method on my first grow. It worked fine & produced an ounce a plant for my first grow.
    I do believe the KISS method using only MaxiBloom is strain specific & many strains will do well using this style of growing. But I also believe many will not.
    I've switched over to FloraNovaGrow & Bloom for nutes & found a wider ranger of plants do well with this method than Maxibloom only. My plants have never looked better.

    But I'm a newb on my 3 & 4 th grows & still learning:wave:
  7. If you're going to use maxicrop with nitrogen from Urea, might as well know how


    In the past decade urea has surpassed and nearly replaced ammonium nitrate as a fertilizer. This has brought about new questions on urea and its use.
    Fertilizer Urea

    Urea, a white crystalline solid containing 46% nitrogen, is widely used in the agricultural industry as an animal feed additive and fertilizer Here we discuss it only as a nitrogen fertilizer.
    Physical Forms of Urea

    Commercially, fertilizer urea can be purchased as prills or as a granulated material. In the past, it was usually produced by dropping liquid urea from a "prilling tower" while drying the product. The prills formed a smaller and softer substance than other materials commonly used in fertilizer blends. Today, though, considerable urea is manufactured as granules. Granules are larger, harder, and more resistant to moisture. As a result, granulated urea has become a more suitable material for fertilizer blends.
    Advantages of Fertilizer Urea

    Urea can be applied to soil as a solid or solution or to certain crops as a foliar spray.
    Urea usage involves little or no fire or explosion hazard.
    Urea's high analysis, 46% N, helps reduce handling, storage and transportation costs over other dry N forms.
    Urea manufacture releases few pollutants to the environment.
    Urea, when properly applied, results in crop yield increases equal to other forms of nitrogen.

    Incorporate Urea for Best Use

    Nitrogen from urea can be lost to the atmosphere if fertilizer urea remains on the soil surface for extended periods of time during warm weather. The key to the most efficient use of urea is to incorporate it into the soil during a tillage operation. It may also be blended into the soil with irrigation water. A rainfall of as little as 0.25 inches is sufficient to blend urea into the soil to a depth at which ammonia losses will not occur.
    Urea Losses to the Air

    Urea breakdown begins as soon as it is applied to the soil. If the soil is totally dry, no reaction happens. But with the enzyme urease, plus any small amount of soil moisture, urea normally hydrolizes and converts to ammonium and carbon dioxide. This can occur in 2 to 4 days and happens quicker on high pH soils. Unless it rains, urea must be incorporated during this time to avoid ammonia loss. Losses might be quite low in the spring if the soil temperature is cold. The chemical reaction is as follows:
    CO(NH2)2 + H2O + urease 2NH3 +CO2

    The problem is the NH3, because it's a gas, but if incorporated the NH3, acts the same as incorporated anhydrous ammonia. Also, half of 28% liquid N is urea and the same thing happens with this half as with regular urea.

    Fall Application Comparisons

    Urea can be readily nitrified—that is, converted to nitrate (NO3)— even when applied late in the fall, and can be quite susceptible to denitrification or leaching the following spring. Anhydrous ammonia (AA) applied in the fall does not nitrify as quickly, due to the stunting of microorganisms in the AA application band.

    A two-year study conducted at Waseca compared late-October applications of both AA and urea for continuous corn (Table 3). These data show a 6 bu/A advantage for AA over urea when applied in the fall without a nitrification inhibitor. But when N-Serve was added, a 16 bu/A advantage was shown with AA. This indicates that the inhibitor has a better degree of contact with the AA mix than is possible with urea.

    Soil Application and Placement of Urea

    If properly applied, urea and fertilizers containing urea are excellent sources of nitrogen for crop production.

    After application to the soil, urea undergoes chemical changes and ammonium (NH4 +) ions form. Soil moisture determines how rapidly this conversion takes place.

    When a urea particle dissolves, the area around it becomes a zone of high pH and ammonia concentration. This zone can be quite toxic for a few hours. Seed and seedling roots within this zone can be killed by the free ammonia that has formed. Fortunately, this toxic zone becomes neutralized in most soils as the ammonia converts to ammonium. Usually it's just a few days before plants can effectively use the nitrogen.

    Although urea imparts an alkaline reaction when first applied to the soil, the net effect is to produce an acid reaction.

    Urea or materials containing urea should, in general, be broadcast and immediately incorporated into the soil. Urea-based fertilizer applied in a band should be separated from the seed by at least two inches of soil. Under no circumstances should urea or urea-based fertilizer be seed-placed with corn.

    With small grains, 10 lb. of nitrogen as urea can generally be applied with the grain drill at seeding time even under dry conditions. Under good moisture conditions, 20 lb. of nitrogen as urea can be applied with the grain drill. Research results at North Dakota State University indicate that under dry conditions, urea at the rate of more than 20 lb. nitrogen per acre, applied with a grain drill in a 6-inch spacing, can reduce wheat stands more than 50% (Table 5) Research at the University of Wisconsin indicates that seed-placed urea with corn, even at low rates of nitrogen, is very toxic to the seed and greatly reduces yields (Table 6). When urea was side-placed as a 2" x 2" starter, however, little if any damage was noted (Table 7).

    In Minnesota, good crop production usually requires an application of more than 20 lb. of nitrogen per acre. Farmers can avoid damage from urea by broadcasting most of the urea nitrogen fertilizer ahead of seeding. Data in Table 8 indicate that urea broadcast prior to seeding is equal to or more effective than similar ammonium nitrate treatments.

    Spreading of Urea

    Urea can be bulk-spread, either alone or blended with most other fertilizers. It is recommended that the spreading width not exceed 50 feet when combined with other fertilizer materials.

    Urea often has a lower density than other fertilizers with which it is blended. This lack of "weight" produces a shorter "distance-of-throw" when the fertilizer is applied with spinner-type equipment. In extreme cases this will result in uneven crop growth and "wavy" or "streaky" fields.
    Blending Urea with Other Fertilizers

    Urea and fertilizers containing urea can be blended quite readily with monoammonium phosphate (11-52-0) or diammonium phosphate (18-46-0).

    Urea should not be blended with superphosphates unless applied shortly after mixing. Urea will react with superphosphates, releasing water molecules and resulting in a damp material which is difficult to store and apply.

    Fluid Urea

    Uniformity of particle size is important with dry solid urea, whether applied directly or in blended formulations. Some imported urea appears to be below U.S. quality standards on granule uniformity. Dissolving urea and marketing the liquid solution is an attempt to overcome this lack of uniformity and still take advantage of the favorable urea price.

    The liquid mix of urea and ammonium nitrate (UAN 28% N) has been on the market for a long time. The characteristics of this solution, however, are not the same as when urea alone is dissolved in water. A solution of 50% urea by weight results in 23-0-0 and has a salting-out temperature of 60 degrees F. In order to store and handle liquid urea during cooler temperatures, the nitrogen concentration must be lowered to reduce salting problems. There are several possible formulations that can be used for this, such as adding small amounts of ammonium nitrate, ammonium sulfate, or anhydrous ammonia.

    Research, particularly on liquid urea, is very limited. Generally, where dry urea functions successfully, the fluid urea should perform equally well and may have the advantage of better uniformity over some dry urea sources.

    Biuret in Urea

    Biuret in urea can cause agronomic problems if placed near the seed. or even if added preplant in bands where seeds will later be planted.

    Most U.S. manufacturers of urea keep biuret content low by keeping high temperatures to a minimum. Biuret content is typically around 0.3%, although urea of foreign origin appears to be higher.

    High heat is normal during the manufacture of urea. If heat exceeds 200 degrees F there is a slight conversion of urea to biuret, but this takes place only during the manufacturing process. No such conversion happens in storage or in the soil.

    Biuret converts to ammonia, but conversion is much slower than for urea. Since biuret remains in the soil for several weeks, the potential for seed damage continues beyond the brief period of conversion of urea to ammonia. The major damage of biuret is to germinating seeds. There is little damage through plant absorption, although some citrus crops have been affected.

    Foliar Application of Urea

    Urea can also be applied as a foliar spray on some crops, such as potatoes, wheat, vegetables, and soybeans. Urea is highly watersoluble. At normal atmospheric temperatures, approximately 1 lb. Of urea can be dissolved in 1 lb. of water.

    Urea Do's and Don'ts

    Store separately from ammonium nitrate.
    Do not use small, fast-moving augers to move the urea.
    Do not exceed a spreading width of 50 feet when urea is applied.
    Do not place in direct contact with corn seed.
    Keep rates of nitrogen applied together with small grain in drill to 10 1b. on dry soils, 20 lb. when soil is moist.
    Apply urea on sod crops when atmospheric temperature is below 60 degrees F.
    When urea is broadcast on soils of high pH (above 7.5), the material should be incorporated into the soil as soon as possible.
  8. K.I.S.S with a twist...

    Think most 1 part ferts will do fine with the kiss method. The key would be the ratio of cal/mag in the fert and is why cns17(for one)and Maxibloom are good candidate for kiss.

    The N in Maxibloom is low because it is, of course, a flowering fertilizer...Although it dose work for either grow or bloom is a little low for strains that are nute hogs.
    Think you really have to grow the same strain several times to dial in what the plant needs and adjust the N ratios for best performance.

    Next grow will be the kiss method and will be using 1/2 Maxigrow, 1/2 Maxibloom along with Diamond Necter, Protek and cal/mag plus only if needed...
    The week before the light change will cut out the Maxigro and start liquid and dry Koolbloom at the onset of flowering.

    Another thought would be to start with Maxibloom, because of the NP ratios, to develop a more established root system, then start a feeding with 1/2 maxigro and bloom to enhance plant growth the last 2-3 weeks of veg.

    So, my reasoning is that the kiss method is not written in stone and a little variation may be needed for optimal conditions.

    In the end just keep it as simple as possible......;)
  9. To touch on the last post, I decided to modify the Lucas formula and employ MaxiGrow along with the Maxibloom with great results. My first feeding in veg was straight MaxiGrow, after which I mixed in the MaxiGrow over subsequent feedings. By the time I flipped to 12/12 I was at 50/50, and then fed 30/70 through the stretch after the flip. I am now 3 weeks into flower and feeding straight MaxiBloom along with some ca/mg and a little liquid KoolBloom.

    This is my first grow, and was intending on using Maxibloom only as per Lucas, but decided to modify the plan after delaying my first feeding until almost 3 weeks from seed and seeing that my girls needed a shot of N. My feeding plan has worked great so far, feel free to look at the journal in my sig if you are curious. I'm glad I picked up the MaxiGrow too, it's nice to know that I have the ability to easily supplement some extra N whenever needed. Using the MaxiGrow along with my MaxiBloom also meant that I never had to approach the 7 g/gallon recommended with Lucas when in veg as the plants got the required N with less total ppm which means less risk of nute burn. with the feeding schedule mentioned, I dosed less than half the recommended 7 g/ gallon (while supplementing with ca/mg between feedings) with no sign of nutrient deficiency.

    This has worked great for me, so just thought I'd throw it out there.....Lucas is just a guideline and you can modify it in many ways with great results. I wanted to keep it simple for my first grow, and adding MaxiGrow to the arsenal worked great for me. :)

  10. check out the "post your coco pics" thread, i just put up some pics.

    all done w/ maxibloom

    it wont do ya wrong

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