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CBD Make sure your CBD products have terpenes!

Discussion in 'CBD Oil' started by TrueTerpenes, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. With this recent CBD craze, we have seen so many different products come out on the market, and unfortunately a lot are claiming they are "full spectrum".

    What does that mean? Some will say that full spectrum means full spectrum cannabinoids, such as a product with CBD, CBG, CBC etc. Some will say that full spectrum means the product has terpenes from hemp extract. Most do not post the terpene content though, so how can you tell whats actually in your product?

    As a terpene company, we know how important terpenes are. If your product doesn't specifically say it has terpenes or doesn't taste herbaceous at all, it might be a sign that the terpene content is low or completely missing. How does this happen? Isolates. A lot of companies can get isolated CBD in crystal form and put it in every product under the sun. This is not ideal since isolated CBD does not perform as well in your body without terpenes. Also, isolated cannabinoids produce a more empty experience.

    An empty experience? What does that mean?
    Think of this analogy: Cannabinoids are the gas pedal, and terpenes are the steering wheel.

    Yes you can take isolated CBD, but all you are doing is blindly pressing the gas pedal. If you want more out of your experience, from mood enhancement to widespread relief, its important to have terpenes in that mix to steer your experience in the direction you want it to go.
     
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  2. Feel free ask questions about the products you're using, or ask any questions about terpenes. We are here to help!
     
  3. I'm glad that you started this thread. As I've mentioned before, I'm a big advocate of terpenes in oral products and not just concentrates for vaping/smoking. I use them to spice up some things but I also use them therapeutically in larger doses for the bulk CBD oils that I make and consult on.

    In larger doses some of the terpenes can have enhanced effects on things like cancer and other major conditions that are too numerous to list. I use different blends of the terpenes I have for different uses. I have a day/night set I make from both full and broad spectrum concentrate depending on circumstances, each containing small amounts of terpenes similar to plant ratios.

    I like to add a 5% terpene solution to my oil as a therapeutic enhancement but I have a lot of problem getting that right. I use 5% of the total final volume of my oil after dilution and that is made up usually of 5-7 terpene isolates with varying ratios. An evening blend, for instance, would have more myrcene than would a day blend and vice versa with alpha-pinene. I use a high ratio of beta-caryophyllene and humulene in synergy for cancer along with others. I have good results with them.

    My problem is that I'm not getting anywhere close to 5% when I have my oil tested at the lab. I don't come anywhere near it, maybe half if I'm lucky. I know that they are different purities and the beta-caryophyllene is a tough one but I should have closer to 3%. The TT mixing instructions aren't consistent or maybe just detailed enough to calculate that complex of a formula. I use 33ml in 666ml of oil which mathematically is 5% of the total volume. So for now I'm just working as a 5% solution instead of actual terpenes but I would like to get a better value. I've even added 8% and only received 1.98% actual terpenes. Any ideas?

    BTW, I should be on the TT payroll with all the business I've sent to you over the last few years from my recommendations. cligner.gif
     
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  4. Thanks so much for the focus on terpines and quality. So much of the industry is focusing on consistency, which is great.... but not at the cost of the quality of medicine and the variables that are needed to treat Different physical and psychological needs.
     
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  5. I have a great calculator that I made for mixing that I can share with you that might help. Message me and I can send it to you!

    Also, To speak to your percentage question:
    When mixing terpenes, they evaporate/volatize, even at room temp. You can put a few drops on a scale and see it right before your very eyes. Also I assume analytical equipment has a variance of about 20%... and when they mix the sample in the lab I'm sure even more terps evaporate.

    You definitely understand that purity ranges for different isolates which is more than many people understand. You've done your research, it definitely shows. However, if those testing numbers were all due to purity then that means our isolates are less than 50% purity which is definitely not the case. We actually re-distill/ fractionate our isolates even further for purity.

    I believe it's a combo of all these factors. Mixing volatility, sample volatility, analytical equip variance/sensitivity, and purity. It could even be due to errors in mixing or if you're using volume vs weight. I always suggest using weight (with an accurate, calibrated scale) so that there is less possible margin of error vs using ml based volumetric tools.
     
  6. Thanks for the kind words Robin! Whats great is that our botanical terpenes provide both consistency and quality so its the best of both worlds. It brings us so much joy to know that more and more people are understanding how important terpenes are in their products, and they are able to customize their blends to fit their needs.

    We often wonder how many bad experiences were had with cannabis due to an unfavorable terpene combo for that specific person? Of course, its mostly due to intense psychoactive effects from THC, but it's possible that those intense effects could have been steered in a better direction if there was a favorable terpene combo for that users body.

    We look forward to all the official medical research that is being done around terpene combinations, and all of the people already using different combos (with success!) in their medicine such as our friend Psychedelic Sam!
     
  7. One question,,this CBD u can buy offline ect is it fake or real reason im asking is u hear it is then u'll hear its fake sale's gimmick?

    Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk
     
  8. As a beginning medical consumer, I have had several bad experiences..( too much acceleration, no steering per your analogy). It’s tough learning what works for you especially for us in a non grow state like Florida. Gradually, with the help of knowledgeable people like PSam, I am learning the balancing act of thc/CBD ratios and terpines. The language used in describing the medicines available to me are often misleading.. in a market where huge ratios of THC seem to be the goal, these rarely provide the best medicine or the best experiences.

    My sincere hope is not for homogenization of marijuana products, but a broader understanding of the science of this botanical gift for superior production of natural medicines for body and soul!
     
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  9. I certainly cannot speak to the value of every product that is marketed as CBD. What I can say is that my preferences in CBD or THC products will always reflect the best balanced medicines that include the natural terpines, not isolates. Much of what is being sold are from totally non medicinal hemp plant. My only use for the isolates is emergency treatment for over medicating. The isolates seem very stable and will store well for that once or twice a year when I get heart pounding, burning up, too high. Lol
     
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  10. No, I don't believe the lower values are due to purity but it is a conundrum that I'd like to solve or at least come closer to. I keep my terpenes in the fridge to try to cut back on that volatility. I know that every time I open a bottle there will be more to escape. The only way I can see to come closer to my goal is to use a fresh bottle each time.

    I don't have the equipment for calculating or measuring terpenes by weight so volume is all that's left to me. I still get enough to make a difference in my oil.

    I have done my research. I've even listened to this several times. :sneaky:

    Shaping Fire: Ben Cassiday, Putting Terpenes to Work For You
     
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  11. I read the podcast and was excited by the possibilities. I personally consume marijuana products with added natural terpines. These are far superior to flavored “ clear” and sometimes the best I can get for vaping in Florida.

    This is an exciting field that is ripe for development.
     
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  12. Welcome in a I look forward to picking your brains a bit.
    This is where I think many of us are going to run into trouble is the concentration of the Terpenes and our smallest working mesure is the Drop.
    [​IMG]
    To get smaller then this I need to thin and thin with what? Is the next question.
    Dipping and Dragging a thin wire in the terps and then into my product would be under a drop but not a very accurate amount.

    I think most of the home growers and makers of Edibles use cooking oils. Most used being Coconut oil as I do.


    Alpha Pinene
    D-Limonene
    Linalool
    Myrcene
    I already have on hand that I bought when I was mixing E-Juice and never got around to finishing what I got them for.

    As a home grower I turn 95% of my grow into dry ice Kief and make Coconut oil-Lecithin-Kief Capsules.
    The dry ice shaking gives me a putty like material that retains much of the original plants flavor profile. This carries over in the finished oil as I use a short infusing step.

    As a medical user this is for pain and for a faster onset I often let the capsules melt in my mouth. The Kief based oil caps are very tasty, like a nut butter. They will make a good starting point as they are really quite pleasant to let melt. I've used up most of the capsules I had on hand and it's time to start cooking again.

    My smallest batches can be 5 grams of Kief and 1 tablespoon of Coconut oil. A triple is what I usually make at once as my dishes can hold that. 30 capsules per tablespoon of oil.

    Real ? Yes. It's made from Hemp and it is what they say it is. It's not engine oil if that's what you mean.
    Will it get you High ? No.
    Does it work on some things for some people ? Yes.


    Let me do the math . LMAO.
    295 drops of oil per Tablespoon. Should be fun. I've got 100 grams of Kief I just shook out so it is time to start making caps and some terpene experimentation is in order.
    <------ Volunteers to be a test dummy.
    [​IMG]

    :)
    BNW
     
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  13. The first i was was aware of terpenes was reading on the package of FlavRx products (oil cartridges) that states it in the ingredients... i believe their claim is that the flavor is from them but all i know is they are the best tasting and smoothest vaping i've found.
     
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  14. I saw company the other day offering a full spectrum vape liquid, when i asked for labs i got sent a pie chart of the different canabinoids,( cheeky prick) and a lab result saying nothing but CBD.

    It turns out they are adding in terpenes made from natural ingredients and thought that they were canna derived and that being canna derived they would contain all the cannabinoids required.

    in short, terpenes are what you want alongside a full spectrum extract obtained via CO2
     
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  15. Based on the dropper that is included with our small sample size, this is our measurement of a drop.

    1 Drop = .23 mg/ 0.023g/ .0275 ml

    Note that if the internal diameter of the dropper you're using is bigger, the drop will be bigger as well!

    Note, that means 1 drop from our dropper in 1 gram of product is about 2% of the total which is a great formula for edibles!

    It really is not expensive to get a little scale from amazon or your local head shop. There are pretty accurate ones (if you calibrate and don't overload them) for under $100, maybe even under $50. Make sure you find a scale that goes at least to the second zero.( 0.00 )on the display. If you make really small batches, three zeros are the way to go.( 0.000 ) Note that sensitive scales that go to the 3rd decimal place, or three zeros will have a very low load capacity, so you won't be able to put a large jar on them to weigh your terps, you will have to put a very small and light container on the scale and then pour those terps into your mix.

    If you're willing to spend some extra money, ohaus scout scales are great and reliable. You can find them used too!
     
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  16. Wow, that company is trying to send a pie graph to customers, thinking they don't know any better.
    This is the exact thing that we are talking about. To be honest, botanical/natural terpene blends have more of a full spectrum profile because they have not been damaged by the extraction process that comes from processing cannabis. We are talking full spectrum terps, not cannabinoids here.

    The fact that the company thought that terpenes contained full spectrum cannabinoids is such a telling statement about the boom of cbd. Some products come from sources where there is very little knowledge around the medicine they are trying to sell, only basic knowledge of how to manufacture and market a product.

    Good for you though, to ask about the product and ask for tests. Holding manufacturers to a standard will improve the quality of their products.
     
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  17. My scales are good for 150 grams if I recall but only reads 000.0 so it's good for down a tenth of a gram.
    I'm used to working in drops and my E juice calculator shows drops, ml and % so it's versatile enough for my use.
    I can also change the number of drops per ml but settled on the default of 35 as it matched the flavoring company bottles I use most.

    Took a lab test from the web for Blue dream and put the numbers in the calculator and it reads out in drops. How handy is that I ask you?

    So my standard batch is 3 tablespoons of "Product"
    15 grams of Kief
    2.5 Tablespoons of Coconut oil
    .5 Tablespoon of Lecithin liquid.

    44ml of Material.

    CBD oil with something extra.
    [​IMG]
    https://www.persessihempboutiques.c...ct-labs-blue-dream-terpene-infused-750-mg-cbd
    It looks like they are adding as much as 5% terps to the CBD oil.


    [​IMG]
    Real Blue Dream, So I entered some rough numbers into the calculator and we get.

    Alpha Pinene = 3% or 47 drops
    D-Limonene = .50 or 8 drops
    Linalool = .05 or 1 drop
    Myrcene = 1% or 16 drops

    Need to ponder whether to add more terps or play with what we have.
    Hit save and.
    Thinking out loud here.

    Ahh the big question is how will the terpenes react with the gel capsules. Plan on adding right before capping as even the warm-near hot fill of the caps will degrade the highly volatile terps i'm thinking.

    BNW
     
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  18. #18 TrueTerpenes, Feb 22, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
    To make the terpene ratios more like nature, we suggest adding a wider variety of terps, especially at such a high % like 5%. We suggest 1-2% with 5% being the max for edibles. When you only add a handful of different terps, that's adding them in much higher ratios than real life. Those Blue dream test results only show 12 terps, but in fact there were probably many, many more than that. The analytical equipment cannot pick up all the smaller quantities of terpenes that are in the plant, so it shows ND or not detected.

    That being said, since your dose is a small capsule, you wont be ingesting a huge amount of terpenes in total, but we suggest trying it at 2-3% instead of 5 because the flavor might be too strong if you're administering this sublingually/dissolving it in your mouth. You can always add more, but you can't take it out. =)

    And yes, add the terps at the very end but make sure to mix longer than you think you're supposed to so its very evenly homogenized. =)
     
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  19. Good advice. The flavors of the Kief are prominent but not overwhelming and I just want to augment not mask so 1-3 % is a better starting range.
    Smallest batch worth making is 1 tablespoon / 5 grams of Hash
    Alpha Pinene = 6 drops
    D-Limonene = 2 drops
    Linalool = 1 drop
    Myrcene = 3 drops

    Terpene Total 1.8%
    I'd love to have a much deeper library of Terpenes to work from but I know how deep my flavors are for Vape juice and this is just as deep a rabbit hole.
    I need to work up a top 10 or 20 list of most found and add them to the ones I have on hand.


    I have a battery powered hand mixer that I use for blending infused E-Liquids that should do the job. I always let the hash caps melt both for that initial sublingual hit but also because it's just plain tasty.

    BNW
     
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  20. Hi, TrueTerpenes

    You are right, many types of CBD products is available in the market. Lot of people is not judges, who is original CBD Oil product. A lot of people are claiming they are "full spectrum.

    Thanks for sharing good information.
     
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