Major PH drops in DWC, please help.

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Growing' started by ponduzn, Jan 19, 2016.

  1. #1 ponduzn, Jan 19, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
    Hello ppl of Grasscity,
    This is my first hydro, and first DWC grow. Ive grown in soil a couple of times before.

    I am in need of your help regarding way too big PH drops in just 6-12 hours(6.0-4.9'ish), which i suspect will contribute to ruin my grow.

    I've tried to adjust EC from 1.9 EC(950ppm), all the way down to 0.6 EC(300ppm), PH still dropping just as much.
    The PH and EC were fine in mid-late veg, stable at 1.6 EC,
    yet now im in mid-flowering, started 1 dec. 2015, and its not even stable, or PH isnt even climbing at 0.6 EC :S

    I use a 480W LED grow lamp, cant find the link, its taken off the website:(

    My rez is 20 litre, and i use 13 litre of nutrient solution, pr plant, i got 3 of them.


    I have no root discolouration, no bad smell, no root rot, no algae, and no salt build-ups,
    which have been the primary answer ive got around all forums when searching for a solution to my problem.
    Also i doubt i got any bacterial problems in my rez, im not certain, but i doubt it, cause im really neat when it comes grow room hygiene, and ive washed all rez with isopropanol from one time to another when doing rez dumps. (Yes i do let it evaporate, and i rinse well.)

    My strains are:

    Hawaiian Snow - GreenHouseSeeds: 23% THC , 0.17% CBD , 0.12% CBN
    \t-Flowering Time: 12 weeks.
    \t-Type: 100% sativa.
    \t-Genetics: Hawaiian sativa x Laos.
    \t
    Dance World - RoyalQueenSeeds: 12%+- THC , High CBD(11%?) , ? CBN
    \t-Flowering Time: 8 weeks.
    \t-Type: 75% sativa, 25% indica.
    \t-Genetics: Dancehall 20 x Juanita la LagrÃmosa

    My nutrients are GHE 3 part, only using Micro and bloom, due to Lucas formula.
    GHE PH up and Down.
    And i use botanicare hydroguard in addition to prevent root rot etc.
    I do a complete reservoir change every 7 days, and only top off with clean tap water every day.
    I use tap water, with an EC of 0.2, ph of 7.2-7.3.


    If you need more info, please tell me, also ill attach a journal txt file i have, with a bit more detailed info.

    Also, thanks for all feedback,
    Pon


    EDIT:

    Pictures ( couldnt use the uploader.)


    First pic the roots may look a bit brown'ish, but they are just the same color as the rest, just bad lighting.
     
  2. you said you top up with clean water...is it ph'd water?..also I've experienced many times the ph drop and run similar to you....if you are noticing the ph drop and no pythium or other fungi,,, trust you will..we know the organisms are too small to see in hydrogaurd but they R their alive and well....same goeas for pythium and other fungi . it's their....sadly...and will notice the dreadfully affects and algae if nothing is done...and for the most part. Root rot you will never get rid of from what research has told me others and my own experience all you can do is keep it limited by always being home and keeping an eye on it....here is my conclusion... Flush twice a week... Use an anti pythium cleaner like dmzone or even sm90 mix appropriately and let the roots swim in this solution whie to are flushing n cleaning your buckets....if you are not running your systems water under 70° f (65-68 preferable)...then even teas or stuff like voidoo juice hydrogaurd will be week and eventually fail....some say and argue hydrogaurd and similiar products is all you need even if your buckets water is over 70-80 degrees....they are either a rareity of luck or full of shit....in my research the forms of fungi like root rot is n forever will be their...certain teas or treatments keep it dormant or win the fight if your(anti) pythium environment ( perfect water temp 65-70, light proof)..if your environment is slightly off you run a high risk of you taking over the battle instead of teas or stuff like hydrogaurd doing the work for you. Trust me the stress is unbearable...I've also heard and read you can fight it off every week and limp through untill harvest but the complete harvest has a very high chance of mediocre and minimum output.....another answer may be its just too damn hot the lights air and water..its drinking more and leaving the salts which will fluctuate ph....I'm just one voice.... Here on grass city there's a dood has his own forum called crankz corner ask crankz or get his attention. Hes been a tremendous help to me in all aspects of hydro
     
  3. #3 ponduzn, Jan 19, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2016
    Thanks for your reply!
    "you said you top up with clean water...is it ph'd water?"
    since my PH drops so significantly, i use as much of my high PH'ed water in an attempt to raise the PH without PH up, which ofc isnt sufficient enough, if i used phed water, i would need to use way more PH up to get it to a stable 5.7-5.9 PH.

    "if you are noticing the ph drop and no pythium or other fungi,,, trust you will..we know the organisms are too small to see in hydrogaurd but they R their alive and well....same goeas for pythium and other fungi . it's their....sadly...and will notice the dreadfully affects and algae if nothing is done...and for the most part. Root rot you will never get rid of from what research has told me others and my own experience all you can do is keep it limited by always being home and keeping an eye on it..."
    You are implying you know i have pyhium, other fungi, or algae ? how ? my roots are completely clean, no smell, nothing, how do you come to that conclusion ?

    "if you are not running your systems water under 70° f (65-68 preferable)."
    My water temps are at 18-21 C mostly (66-70 F), from what i heard, pythium should not occur at these temps ?

    "( perfect water temp 65-70, light proof)."
    Mine is at 66-70 F, and its completely light proof.

    "Here on grass city there's a dood has his own forum called crankz corner ask crankz or get his attention. Hes been a tremendous help to me in all aspects of hydro"
    Thanks, i will see if i can get a hold of him!

    Thanks for your help, i appreciate it greatly, but i added a journal to my original post, where you would get more info, which i already answered, except water temps [​IMG]

    Cheers.

    EDIT:
    Just ordered DMZone to try that out, cant hurt, right ? :) Ty for tips.












     
  4. Yeah, I'd like to see pictures.
    I'm not even going to try and read through that text, nor convert ec to ppm's that I'm familiar with, but 1.9 sounds high.
    I'd say either microbial activity (bad bacteria) or salt buildup. Try flushing with straight water for 24-48 hrs. and see how they look.




     
  5. Pictures of roots or of plants, or both ?

    1.9 EC \\ 2 = 950 ppm 0.5 conversion :)
    but for lucas formula, that is acceptable right ? :S
    1.9 i only tried for a couple of days to see if it were the issue, and immediately went back way lower.
    Now im at 0.6 EC ( 300 ppm 0.5 conv.), been that way for about 3 days, and it seems the ph is rising a little now, the lights just went on so i just checked. but 300 ppm, is waaay to low for mid flowering, isnt it ?
    Salt buildup i doubt, i have been flushing a couple of times, but not for 24 or more hours, but i will try that right away just to make sure!
    I just ordered DMZone to try to see if there actually is bad bacteria, sucks that hydroguard did not help me in this case.

    Thanks for your reply, and insight, its greatly appreciated!
     
  6. Pictures of the whole plants should be good. It's most likely just too high of ppms for those strains then. I've yet to run a plant that wants that much. If Ph continues to rise at the lower ec, that should tell you that it was indeed too high.
     
  7. #7 ponduzn, Jan 19, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2016
    Pictures are added, to the first post:)

    hmm okey, might be :S
    ive seen the review om Hawaiian snow from greenhouse seeds themselves, and they said they used 1.7 EC (850ppm), in flowering. seems like mine and theirs dont react the same then :S
    dance world i dont know what they used.
    but 300ppm for 2 months into flowering, and 800ppm stable ph in veg, seems odd dosnt it ?
    alright, im currently flushing them, gonna flush em for 48 hours i think then.
    after that ill experiment with where the ph starts to creep up,
    Thanks for your reply again sir.


    EDIT:
    also, what ppm do your grows usuall stay at, during veg and flower , with lucas formula, if you use it ?
     
  8. Honestly, I'm at a loss. Those look pretty good. I suppose my course of action would be to continue with the flush for at least 24. Then mix up around 400 ppms and monitor it. It should go down. Telling me that the plants are eating. Depending on how much it goes down, I'd try and determine where I should bring it up to.
    Mostly in between 400-600 veg and 600-800 flower on average. Not yet using Lucas, but plan to in the coming weeks.
     
  9. Thank you!
    Alright, i think i will follow up with the flush for 48 hours just to be sure, now they have been in just tap water for a few hours, and the EC has gone from 0.18 to 0.20, so i assume they are releasing salts ? im no expert on this hehe!
    The PH aswell have risen quite a bit, i set the water at 5.6-5.7, and just now it were at 6.3, so i assume we might be on the right track ?
    okey, i will try as you are suggesting, starting at 400 and working my way to the sweet spot !
    And thanks alot for very informative info sir.
    I will get back to you with the results as time goes by !

     
  10. No worries. Sounds like they're getting back on the right track.
     
  11. I sure do hope so! [​IMG]
     
  12. Alright, that was the end of this :(
    Electricity were cut of for about 11 hours, interrupting light cycle, and suffocating the plants :(
    Decided to just cut em down and clean everything up, they werent looking too good, and the light cycle were interrupted almost 6 hours, so i didnt wanna waste more time.
    5 Months wasted hehe..

    Thanks alot for the help and tips anyways, i believe we were on right track,
    last thing i saw, were the EC went from 0.18 to 0.22, and PH were rising like a rocket :)
    Cheers crankz!
     
  13. Oh damn, sorry to hear! Hopefully future grows are much better for you.
     
  14. Thank you!
    Yea, gotta move, find a more suitable spot to set up power-backups etc too :)
    I love your thread, crankz corner, ill keep an eye out there ^^
    Peace
     
  15. Im sorry, what ?
     
  16. your issue is the tap water and your plants are drinking more water than nuets, I say use less nuets.
     
  17. You had pyth root rot. Different forms will either make your roots brown, or even slimy, and smelly. What was your water temps? Before you run anything again clean every part out thoroughly, or you will keep getting it. A healthy hydro sys ph should rise slowly. The roots weren't getting enough 02, and as a result, ya had what ya had. To save your crop next time use hydroguard, Dutch Master Zone etc....in conjunction with micostop. Be sure b to keep water temps below 70.
    Did you post a pic? I didn't see one. I could confirm 100% with a pic, but I'd bet that's what ya had/have
     
  18. My roots werent brown, they were somewhat tinted by GH micro, No bad smell or slime at all :)

    My water temps were at 18-21 C (66-70 F), should be within the range.
    Ive already cleaned out everything very good, but i dont plan on getting more up anytime real soon tho, i just dont have time for another run yet :)
    yep, PH rose slowly at lower ppms, as crankz helped me out with, i think what he said about salt buildup really were the culprit.
    The roots were getting plenty of O2, i had a 70 L pr hour airpump from GH, on 5 buckets in the beginning, only on 3 in the end, with big flat circular airstones.
    I also used hydroguard thoughout just about the whole run, not in the very early stages, cuz i was waiting for it, dmzone i just ordered before it all went to trash, so didnt get to try it.
    pic is in the Imgur URL at the bottom of my first post.

    Thanks for the reply tho !







     
  19. my tap water is just 0.18 EC, thats nothing, im no expert on it, but i doubt it :)
    I also believe i needed less nutes, and the problem were salt buildup.

    Thanks for reply :)
     
  20. That's really odd. I'm not sure i understanding you though. You had said the ph was dropping (everytime I've seen that it was a form of pythium)
    So you're saying as your ec rose, your ph dropped? Bloom will drop PH, but it will bring it to 5.8, especially with clean water like that (I've seen people with high ppm water that had lime in it raise ph significantly) but the only time I've seen ph drop was due to a disease in the root zone. Once rez, or runoff ph starts dropping, especially in a hydro sys...it's a struggle to say the least, and in most cases the plants dying.
    Also everything could be dialed in (pleanty of oxygen, good wayer temps etc etc) however once that ph starts falling, theres something wrong in thevroot zone. Some kind of contamination.
    The only DWC I use now are Hempys (with Lucas) I've never had a problem. Drain to waste is another method i use, as I don't like my nutrs recirculating.
    What's the ph of your tap, as that is clean
     
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