Lucas Formula w/ additional supplements (help)

Discussion in 'First Time Marijuana Growers' started by Agentherb, Nov 23, 2014.

  1. Hi good day everyone,
    Im new to this forum (forgive me if this is posted in the wrong section), but have read quite a great deal of information on here and other places on the web. Frankly a lot of information can be contradictory, and growing beliefs sometimes collide with each other.
    That being said I think have come across a fairly simple procedure which Ive found many experienced growers say is fool proof called the Lucas Formula. It calls for a ratio of 0-5-10 / 0-8-16 of the General Hydroponics Grow - Micro - Bloom depending on your light intensity as I have learnt. Sounds pretty fool proof and many agree that this formula is a good stepping stone for 'learning hydro for dummies'.I've visited asklucas and lucasformula websites and yup it does sound like a cookie cutter method to growing a fine decent crop. Here is where my troubles begin though.
    Living in the equatorial tropics where humidity and temperature runs high Ive needed to make a few adjustments to my set up and would request anyone with proper knowledge for assistance. Ill explain by describing my set up first.
    I have a 3 gallon DWC reservoir which i light up with approximately 250 watts (actual not equivalent CFL) in a cabinet type setup. This is my Green room which I keep on a 18/6 hour light cycle. CFL don't get my plant growing fast and large enough so Im debating on a 250w MH or Horticultural LED. My  cabinet isn't the biggest, in fact its under a sink maybe 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 ft. (don't worry i took the proper precautions so as not to burn down my home). I plan to use the Lucas formula 8-16 since the wattage output is a little higher but can always be diluted as I have a large 5 gallon drum of 0-8-16 already premixed, and same 5 gallon drum of PH water also premixed. Ventilation and temperature is adequate when Im at home which is quite often, being self employed. I keep the area air conditioned for most of the time but I can't avoid leaving the comfort of home to do errands and such. During which time I must turn off the air conditioning unit and temperatures can often reach 80-85 and if I really mess up and ventilation is blocked I've seen it go to 90 at the canopy. This has destroyed a batch of Tahoe OG in the past and in my part of the world those seeds are not easy to come by. I have 6 seeds of them left, but a mother plant growing in compost from a hardware store and given balanced nutes maybe once a week. By balanced i would say NPK 20-20-20 at 1/4 strength. I also noticed that spider mites have appeared from time to time, i can only control the population but haven't been able to eliminate them completely. Im thinking they came from the compost.
    This being said I was prompted to look into some sort of additive which would help combat heat/cold stress, and strengthen my crop against possible aphids and mites. Anyway i don't ever leave the comfort of my garden for too long. Thats when I came across Armour Si by GH also. While adding it to my cart to be shipped I also was recommended tp buy Diamond Nectar for humic and pulvic to help the good bacteria / microbes.  Liquid KoolBloom and Flora Nectar also sounded beneficial so I picked up a couple bottles of those as well as a small bottle of calimagic purchased earlier as i used to grow in coco. So all in all i got Floramicro/Florabloom/Calimagic/Diamond Nectar/Armour Si/Flora Nectar sweetener  (stuck to GH ) as well as vitamin B quick start hormone and some clonex to turn 1 plant into many.
    Im choosing to go with Lucas formula as I am still a beginner in my eyes although I have made some (although small yielding), dank nugs out of some old mexican seeds i had brought over. 
    My main question now is how can I incorporate the supplements to fit into the lucas formula mix ,and how much should I add? I understand that the mix is suppose to be used 0-8-16 from vegging to harvest time. I would like to help my plant as much as possible though because at times temperatures can rise and that causes the mite eggs to hatch, as well as my plants starting to dry and wither away. I do have a PPM and PH reader, as well as hydrometer which with the air-conditioning on can bring my temperature to 75F-80F (kinda the limit)  and a RH of about 50-60. 
    That being said how many ml to the the gallon should I add these supplements especially the armour si while still being safe. I use tap water which is fairly clean giving me a reading of 60-70 ppm which i tack on to the PPM of the solution mix. and try to stabilize. First time i cleaned and added a light mix my plant turned a litera solidl purple and its barely hanging on at the moment. I know OG is a beast feeder but in general what would be a good regiment for begging and flowering for that matter.
    I have a 300 W full spectrum horticultural LED lamp 12/12 in an area around the same size as above mentioned cabinet just taller. Again the question that remains is how can i utilize the rest of my GH supplements to maximize yield/flavor /protection of my plants. do i need to modify or dilute any of my feed for it to jive well with the supplements. Help is always appreciated.
    Thanks in Advance

  2. Lucas specifically says on those sites you mentioned, not to dilute the formula and not to mess with it.  So the answer is, if you add any of those supplement you bought then you're not doing Lucas Formula method you are just using the Agentherb Formula.
    On those sites he even answers questions where people ask "how can I include this supplement in the formula?" and the answer is always basically "I don't know, you'd have to put it in a spreadsheet and work it out, all I am saying is I calculated this particular mix and it has everything you need in the right proportions, and the point is it's easy"
    If you were going to follow the Lucas Formula, why did you buy all those other things as well?
    Being a new growing enthusiast I expect to find whats optimal for my growing conditions. Lucas would be my base but if I can improve on it then I would definitely like to do so. The heat here and humidity has caused fox tailing, hermies, and just plain airy nugs in the past. I bought the additives in an attempt to provide my plant with help for my conditions. Im just using the lucas formula as a starter platform. The formula doesn't produce the same results here where I live as some of you folks lets say in Northern California would, so I am trying other methods.
    Obviously its not going to be a lucas formula with the added supplements anymore but if it enhances the crop then I will have achieved my goal. And I have read that Lucas is a stepping stone, that many people have enhanced it. Simply what Im trying to do as well. You don't really have to question why I bought other supplements, isn't discovering and sharing ideas part of the fun?
  4. And I quote from Lucas " but back to your question
    do the additives have benefits?
    yes, but not if they are misused
    for example PK 13-14 is great stuff, but it is very potent, and needs to be tailored to particular phases of maturation
    the recipes I give as one size fits all, work great, dont need flushing, and produce healthy plants.
    people who tweak their nutes for different stages of growth, if not overdone, also produce perfectly good medicine." from asklucas.
  5. The thing is that Lucas Formula isn't a "base" formula, it's calculated to have everything you need in a certain proportion.  Once you start diluting it or changing the amounts, you are no longer guaranteed to get all the magnesium, iron, calcium, etc that you need, or to have the right ratio of P:K for effective flowering.
    He mentions an additive like Canna PK 13/14 because of the type of additive it is.  It is a highly potent, specific blooming additive that has no nitrogen and, as he says, it has a specific time that it can be used.  In this case it would be to boost the P-K levels over a couple of weeks only just around flowering time, and NOT according to the dosage on the packet but in consideration of the levels of P-K already in the formula.
    So what I'm trying to say is, when you change the Lucas Formula, unless you actually check what you are changing, you're actually totally ruining the whole balance of the nutrients in the formula.  The balance is as important as having enough of everything.
    What you could do to see what of your products you might be able to use, it look at all the labels and take note of the NPK values.  Especially check if there is a "gauranteed analysis" on the label that also lists % of any micro nutrients.  See what you've actually got, rather than just bottles with nice sounding names.
  6. And actually there's a spreadsheet you can download from a link on one of the sites, that lets you input all the of the nutrient values of up to 6 products, and then unfortunately you have to fiddle with it manually to get your desired formula it can't just work it out itself, but it's designed to help you mix your own Lucas Formula using whatever you have that isn't GH bloom/micro.  I can find you a link if you like.
  7. I appreciate the advice from this comment much more than the previous, although fyi i wasn't just buying bottles because they have nice names. As i mentioned a friend recommended the humic, and armor si for my heat problem just sounds like it makes sense. In any case I also do have floragro if i wanted to just go with the full GH as I've read this does produce a better crop at times even. Im all about trial and error, thats where our high grade cannabis got to where its at today right? What I guess I'm trying to ask instead then is how, if at all, can it be modified then to incorporate the supplements which would without a doubt help me in this situation.
  8. yes please that would be very helpful. I have and will of course try different methods to find whats best suitable for my growing conditions.  
  9. I'm sorry I'm not trying to be combative, and I didn't mean to say you bought the bottles because they have nice names, I literally mean all the bottles have nice names, people need to actually look at what is in them!  People use Big Bud, MaxiBloom, UltraDank(?), all together because it's all good, right?  Improve the yield and flavour and all that?  They don't realise it's totally over-feeding.  maybe you get nute burn, maybe the smoke is harsh and with headaches, maybe you just mess up the nitrogen ratio and have healthy plants but small leafy flowers.
    I'll offer an alternative, rather than using multiple additives to the Lucas, you could see if one or two of them are particularly good for something - maybe one is good for roots on small plants and maybe one is a good PK booster, and just use those with careful thought at certain times.  Or instead, just go all the way and follow a GH schedule that uses all the nutes, trust that GH instructions provides about the right balance which hopefully it will.  Lucas was all about providing about the right balance with minimal products, though.  Like he says, one size fits all, no flushing, I bet the GH schedule includes at least one flush.
    That spreadsheet is mentioned on asklucas, but there's also a link to a download page, you want the first one the premixppm spreadsheet it's not terribly easy to use, though!
  10. Thanks for the tips, your right this spreadsheet is no joke. I also have had bad experiences following the labels on bottles to the tee. Ive come to find that usually less is more for cannabis. I understand Lucas is a one size fits all method though but I know he says that the use of additives can either do nothing, hurt, or slightly improve, whereas with no additives there is no risk of damage whatsoever. I've tried straight lucas only to have it foxtail so i guess i was asking if anyone else may have had any success with 1 or a couple of these other products. Will study this premixppm spreadsheet in a while. I appreciate the insight.
  11. You're right, more is less except in two respects.  More light and more soil are never bad things.  If you had a 50 litre grow bag full of organic soil, you wouldn't need to feed them!
    The foxtailing could have been because of heat stress or similar rather than just down to the Lucas, although maybe exacerbated because the nutes weren't right for you for some reason.  You mentioned the climate being an issue, my experience is that I see it occasionally during the summer when I have trouble keeping the temps down in my tent.
    Good luck!
  12. Oh no I'm not attributing the foxtails to the formula. It's the heat I'm 99% sure, which is the reason I wanted to know if the armor Si would be ok to use alongside Lucas formula

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