Something you have to understand is as humans evolve, their conception of God comes closer and closer to the truth. The savage believes that his God is the highest version of himself, he believes his God too takes joy in slaughtering his enemy, and that his God has his moral belief's. The Abrahamic God was created a LOOOONNNG time ago, to where the Old Testament seems very savage to us, because it indeed is. There have of course always been those who are much more highly ascended above the rest of the race who have had a bit closer ideal of the truth. If you'd like to study a bit more up to date version of the conception of the Abrahamic God, I would suggest you read "A Course in Miracles".
How do you suppose people came to this knowledge in the first place? There was no one who told them, the truth is within, as I said the Spirit is made up of the God force, and it too is omniscient as well as almost omnipotent when fully developed. Faith can move mountains. That's no metaphor. However people don't really have the proper idea of what is meant by faith.
and you say there is no reason to fear death? that makes no sense. you have just listed some very good reasons to fear it. there isn't enough room in 100 threads to cover all the ways and circumstances of human death throughout it's existence. and according to you, if things aren't done in a specific manner, it causes the spirit pain? so an individual's spirit is stuck and powerless to what happens to it? and it's like that for 3 1/2 days? and if you are speaking in relative terms of time (which you have to be in order to even list a period of time), that's 84 hrs of unabashed misery if the ritual isn't right? There is no reason to fear death, in the span of thousands of years, a few years of pain as well as joy for the good lasts no longer than a few hours in your life. The 3.5 day period is the time that the Spirit remains in a semi-contact with the body, and it can still feel some of the pain of the body though it is rather anesthetized due to it's seperation, it is still a dull sort of pain though, the major problem being a result of the interruption of the lifes playback. The period of purgatory can vary, the time between incarnations is about 144 years, so if you lived to 90, thats 64 years of astral rest. The purgatory period does not last this whole 64 years however, as there are 3 stages to go through during the period of transition from life to life. and in the case of suicide, take the Samurai for example. you are saying that these individuals, when acting on their beliefs and committing suicide for various reasons, that their spirits would then have to "sit" powerlessly in some sort of "hunger anguish" for a period of time that was the difference in time from what was predetermined? predetermined by who? same goes for anyone who sacrifices themself to save another? and any terminally ill patient on their death bed who decides they don't want anymore pain? and what exactly happens to an aborted fetus? Sacrificing yourself to save another is not suicide so to speak. Suicide is killing yourself in order to escape the problems of life. I can not honestly say anything about the Samurai way of suicide, because I cannot tell you with absolute certainty the result of this as it is not an escape but rather a code of honor. Again in the period of your entire existence, even 80 years is really not a long time. There is in fact a purpose to aborted fetuses, and if you will reread my origional post about why children die before their given a chance to live you'll find the answer. You'll find the answer to almost all of these questions there. sounds like a lot of pain and misery for the spirit to helplessly go through simply because you ended your life instead of someone or something else. and you are saying there is a difference between if someone else cuts your time short than if you cut your time short? cause they both do not allow you to live for the predetermined amount of time. and the notion that the spirit experiences pain does not correlate with the age old philosophy that "the pain our body experiences is good for the soul". meaning your suffering here is for the betterment of your spirit or the "I". but what is the suffering of the "I" for? The spirit does not experience pain like if you got cut. The spiritual pain is not something I can really explain to you. As far as being murdered, that is not having your time "cut short" as stated above. There is such a thing as fate, and there have been instances of an Adept telling an undeveloped person where they would be at a certain time, and the person still not being able to change that fate though they tried. Free-will is not completely free until you develop your Will. Most people are tossed about like driftwood in the ocean, a developed person is like a boat, still affected by the waves of the ocean (by the Highest Cause, God) but having more control than the helpless driftwood. The suffering of the body is necessary, because the life is when your Ego is molded the most, and it is how the lesson taught in the astral is completed so to speak so that it has a complete effect on your developing soul. and what is your explanation for mutations? deformities? anomalies? retardation? children's diseases? in other words what about all of those incarnations that couldn't read or post on this thread or any other even if they wanted to? I have already answered this question as well, perhaps you would like to read my more recent larger posts. I'm not sure why I responded to this, looking back every one of your questions has been answered in my previous posts, perhaps you should go back and re-read. If your interested in these concepts, might I suggest you all to read "The Rosicrucian Mysteries" and "Mansions of the Soul: the Cosmic Conception" They will more clearly illustrate these concepts for you. However in order to verify them, as any good scientist would do, you will need a certain level of development. If your genuinely interested in developing your soul, and are willing to put many years of dedication (around 3-5 years for the person at the "base of the stairs to heaven" level) to achieving just the 1st level of the Godhead, than I will gladly help you do that as well.
Just watching this and it reminded me of this thread. Maybe it will help someone sew a few connections posted in this context Jill Bolte Taylor's stroke of insight | Video on TED.com
well i don't know what other writings of yours that you speak of, but the answers to my questions are no where to be found in this^, and this^ is all that i read to ask the questions i did. you may think i'm dumb, unaware, or undeveloped, but sir your vague construct of the afterlife, and the rules of it, are fallible beyond my belief. it doesn't take an "unfolding" to understand or make sense of what you've said, it takes BELIEF. what you've written, with it's vague and fallible details as an absolute constuct of the afterlife reality, is no different than the "supposed" absolute construct that is defined in biblical writings, in the sense that it requires BELIEF. so, in your writings the reader has to BELIEVE that the the dimensions of this life and the afterlife are the same. that time is NOT subjective, and there is some sort of universal time that binds all things that exist on any plane or dimension. meaning that when not existing in this dimesion, one is still bound to the "sense" of time in this dimension. and this universal time, how is it calculated? measured? recorded? "in the span of a thousand years, 60 yrs is no more than a few hours", exactly how is this determined? the reader also has to BELIEVE in some sort of universal right and wrong. and they have to Believe that the definition of "suicide"(Latin suicidium, from sui caedere, "to kill oneself") is not just self-termination, but as self-termination due to the inability to handle life or as a result of despair. thus if you take your own life because of a moral, a belief, a code, and/or so that someone else can live, it is "ok" and not considered suicide? BUT OF COURSE! The Abrahamic religions consider suicide an offense towards God due to religious belief in the sanctity of life. and have you ever heard of the notion that there is NEVER a true need for self-sacrifice? i don't want to go all into it if you havn't, but it's the idea behind the FAA's (and many others) rules about the procedures when a flight is in jeopardy. in layman's terms, you always save yourself before anyone else, including your own children. in fact from a psychological perspective, sacrificing yourself so that a loved one will live is actually more of an act of selfishness, as they (the sacrificed) are doing it because they don't want to live without the loved one, or better said, they don't want to be the one left behind having to deal with the despair. finally the reader has to also BELIEVE that their Karma has no forgivness(that it's all mechanical-cause/effect procedure), and that if the event of death isn't perfect(follow the rules of your construct), then they'll have to suffer for up to 84hrs. and the lack of the "perfect death" is what sometimes results in a miscarriages and abortions? how exactly does that explain mutations, deformities, anomalies, and retardation? again these are just the result of Karma, of the "bad" things you did before the current incarnation of you was created? and how is this Karma determined? you say it's just cause and effect, yet how is the effect of each cause determined? and who or what are these "master spirits" that basically control our lives? how are they determined or ordained? do they have personas? minds? emotions? morals? rules? and how are those things determined, measured and recorded? well my friend, you are not asking for understanding and intelligence to make sense of your construct, you (like any other religious influent) are asking for a subscription of BELIEF. you have not taken into account EVERYTHING, thus you are biased. and that fact is clearly visible as most of your afterlife construct is a result of Abrahamic religions and beliefs. don't worry, now that i see (which i already had the idea because you always refer to GOD as Him, which is only a result of Abrahamic religions) that you are biased, and what you speak of is only relevant if one subscribes to that bias, i will no longer debate this with you. i never wish to debate one's own religious beliefs, no point in it. however i do wish that when ever you post such things, that you make it clear to the readers that the main source for what you've said, is religion.
so, in your writings the reader has to BELIEVE that the the dimensions of this life and the afterlife are the same. that time is NOT subjective, and there is some sort of universal time that binds all things that exist on any plane or dimension. meaning that when not existing in this dimesion, one is still bound to the "sense" of time in this dimension. and this universal time, how is it calculated? measured? recorded? It requires no "belief", because whether you believe in gravity or not, if you jump off a building you will fall, these are Laws of Nature, and everyone is equally subject to them "in the span of a thousand years, 60 yrs is no more than a few hours", exactly how is this determined? In the span of THOUSANDS of years, as in 20-30,000 years, not one thousand. How is this determined? I don't suppose you've ever seen a "scale model" car. How did they determine the scale of that little car to the real one, it's quite the mystery. the reader also has to BELIEVE in some sort of universal right and wrong. and they have to Believe that the definition of "suicide"( Latin suicidium, from sui caedere, "to kill oneself") is not just self-termination, but as self-termination due to the inability to handle life or as a result of despair. thus if you take your own life because of a moral, a belief, a code, and/or so that someone else can live, it is "ok" and not considered suicide? BUT OF COURSE! The Abrahamic religions consider suicide an offense towards God due to religious belief in the sanctity of life. Where do you think conscience comes from? Why do we consider some things bad and others good. It is because the purging of the soul in purgatory followed by the suffering of the flesh in the new incarnation leads one to know he does not want to experience the effect of the same mistakes again. Like I said, there are select few reasons when suicide is not the premature ending of a life, and it is a result of fate. When you choose the incarnation of a samurai for example, you are choosing that code of honor with it. It is not the same as an emo kid trying to escape his sadness. and have you ever heard of the notion that there is NEVER a true need for self-sacrifice? i don't want to go all into it if you havn't, but it's the idea behind the FAA's (and many others) rules about the procedures when a flight is in jeopardy. in layman's terms, you always save yourself before anyone else, including your own children. in fact from a psychological perspective, sacrificing yourself so that a loved one will live is actually more of an act of selfishness, as they (the sacrificed) are doing it because they don't want to live without the loved one, or better said, they don't want to be the one left behind having to deal with the despair. This is just your ideal. Because you feel you would rather die than live without a loved one, does not mean that absolutely selfless love does not exist, though it is rare. There are people who are completely unaffected by the death of a loved one, because they do not rely on any external source to "make" them happy. I've had 2 of my best friends die in this life, and I was not saddened by it, because I understand there is no "death", only transition, and I do not rely on any external source for the way I feel. Emotions can be changed by focusing on the desired vibration. finally the reader has to also BELIEVE that their Karma has no forgivness(that it's all mechanical-cause/effect procedure), and that if the event of death isn't perfect(follow the rules of your construct), then they'll have to suffer for up to 84hrs. and the lack of the "perfect death" is what sometimes results in a miscarriages and abortions? how exactly does that explain mutations, deformities, anomalies, and retardation? again these are just the result of Karma, of the "bad" things you did before the current incarnation of you was created? Once again, as I explained it is not some immense suffering for 3.5 days, it is an interruption. Karma does not work according to forgiveness, it is a set Law. Everyone is affected equally, why should one person experience less consequence for the same actions? A person isn't effected any less equally by any other Law of Physics, why would it be any different for other Laws of Nature. I don't think your reading comprehension is up to par, because I clearly illustrated how it explains deformities and such. Once the soul is purged in the astral, it is necessary that the physical body experience the good and bad as well in order to mold the soul towards perfection, as the physical life is what has the most effect upon our development. and how is this Karma determined? you say it's just cause and effect, yet how is the effect of each cause determined? Again, EQUAL and OPPOSITE reaction. Meaning if you cheated on your wife, you would experience the same EQUAL feeling of pain that you caused her. It is determined by the effect felt by the person you've harmed. If on a 1-10 scale you cause a person 8 sadness, you will experience 8 sadness. and who or what are these "master spirits" that basically control our lives? how are they determined or ordained? do they have personas? minds? emotions? morals? rules? and how are those things determined, measured and recorded? You wouldn't be able to comprehend this even if I explained, as you seem to believe everything in the universe is of a material makeup to where it can be measured with tools and such. I am not going to sway your belief, nor will I try to. I could elaborate until I'm blue in the face and it would be useless. well my friend, you are not asking for understanding and intelligence to make sense of your construct, you (like any other religious influent) are asking for a subscription of BELIEF. you have not taken into account EVERYTHING, thus you are biased. and that fact is clearly visible as most of your afterlife construct is a result of Abrahamic religions and beliefs. If you say so . Because I used Abrahamic religions for an example because they are the most well known beliefs, that obviously means that I'm a believer in the Abrahamic religions I suppose. I have taken more than you think into account, but I am not going to spend hours writing every little detail of the matter, only enough for a general understanding. don't worry, now that i see (which i already had the idea because you always refer to GOD as Him, which is only a result of Abrahamic religions) that you are biased, and what you speak of is only relevant if one subscribes to that bias, i will no longer debate this with you. i never wish to debate one's own religious beliefs, no point in it. however i do wish that when ever you post such things, that you make it clear to the readers that the main source for what you've said, is religion.Religion indeed, however, not theology. You sir, are making strong assumptions of my faith. I use "Him" in terms of capitalizing to give my due respect to THE ALL, which is what I actually call God. I use God because it is shorter and easier to type. You do not know me, please do not pretend that you have me all figured out. I don't go to church, I don't get on my knees to pray, I do not believe Jesus was God, nor do I follow the jewish traditions. You saying I'm biased because I am christian or jewish, or "Abrahamic", is utterly wrong. I too will discuss this no further, because it is utterly useless. I post what I post for the people who may find use in it, not to try to "lure people in" to my "biased belief". The funny thing is, you say this is all Abrahamic, when in reality, most of these things are to be found in YOGI philosophy. But of course I would never read into anything about Raja or Gnani Yoga, or Islam, or Buddhism, being the biased person that I am.
Haha, I must say, I'm not going to try to convince you of anything. When you grow old and are on the verge of death, you will think of all the possibilities of what's to come at the "unknown" and you will likely think back to this very thread, or at least the ideas contained therein. Assuming you do not die suddenly, as you are still connected to a degree to the earth sphere you will know for yourself and die in peace as you see these things begin to manifest before you. Until that time, I have no way of proving something to you that can't be measured by sciences current equipment. You seem to believe science is at it's absolute peak and there is nobody attempting to even bother proving these things with technological equipment. Until that equipment is produced, I have no way of persuading your materialistic mind.
you are mistaken again if you think i havn't thought of an afterlife(s), and i don't need scientific proof to say there is, or anything i've read on this thread, to know there is. see you just don't get it, i'm challenging your absolutes, not saying science is absolute. i'm questioning some of the details and rules of this construct that you, and what ever books you have read, say are absolute. what don't you understand about that? you gave a construct that contained specific periods of time and rules. i asked you how these periods of time and rules were defined and determined. you didn't give me an objective answer. that's all that happened. i didn't "seem to believe science is at it's absolute peak and there is..." and i didn't say anything to imply a disbelief in an afterlife. my being skeptical about what you said tells you NOTHING about me except that i am skeptical. look, all in all this means nothing, i understand. but here in this forum, if you state something as an absolute, yet it holds no water, and it's apart of a discussion i wish to speak on, well i'm gonna call you out on it. i'm gonna ask you to define it to what ever degree that i need in order to understand it. again i'm here to learn from EVERYTHING, not convince people they don't know shit and need to stop explaining. so just be prepared for me to be a thorn in your side, if this is the gospel your spreading.
Well it's not that I couldn't explain what determines these things, it's just a cycle, what determines why one person who smokes lives to 100 and another who is a health nut dies at 60 both from natural causes? It's just the average cycle of life. 144 years isn't an EXACT number, but on average, if you take the time between 8 births, add it up and divide it by 8, it will average out to the general area of 144 years. If I told you that there is a set time, to the very hour, of how long you will live on this earth you would never believe that. Even murders and suicides work into this equation. You will not live a single minute longer than has been determined, nor will you live any less, no matter what you try to do. Free will isn't quite as free as you think it is, at least not for most people. This would seem to contradict what I've previously said, you'll see alot of contradictions likened to this in religious texts that turn people from them, the bible in particular. When ______ was asked to reveal the first 4.5 Initiations in plain language, practices that had been guarded to the point that Candidates had to do tests that could result in death or slavery if they did anything wrong, he was given the direction to reveal that he was in fact an Initiate if asked, however, he was also instructed that he needn't prove the fact that he was. That is the main purpose I too have in telling you guys these little known truth's, it's not any kind of speculation, there are Initiates who can perform a certain working where they can will someone else to project out of their body, and the physical body goes stiff to the point that you can set the head and feet on 2 chairs and stand on the stomach without the body bending in the slightest, like a piece of wood. That would be the only way I could prove it to you, this feat can be done at any distance, because consciousness is not limited by space or time. You would need no further mathematical formulas or knowledge, because you would have wisdom, that is, knowledge that has been experienced. How do you know that water is wet? Because you've felt it on your body. The only way you could absolutely know these things, was if you could see them for yourself. If you have around 5-7 years that your willing to dedicate every available moment of your life to developing these faculties, I would be glad to give you directions, whether you are able to accomplish even the first initiation depends on your level of development. I will not "prove" anything to anybody though, other than trying to put things in the most easily understandable and logical words possible. It is not my intention to convert the world to this belief, because as a whole the race isn't up to it, but I reveal these things for those who can feel deep inside from the Spirit that this is no mere speculation and educated guessing that modern philosophy has come to be known for, but as true for those who can utilize more than their material body as the cycle of the moon is for the average man. You may think whatever you want, that "I'm just quitting because it's bullshit" or however you may put it, and that's ok. There are those on the forums who recognize the workings of their own fate for why I am here and what I teach, it is for these souls that I have come, not for the swine who would trample the pearls under their feet.
The Spirit is the pure essence of God that is within all of us, the main thing that makes us "in God's image". The Soul makes up your individuality/ego/personality, and it is the thing that is unfolded/perfected in order that the essence of God can become more and more revealed. Look at the spirit as a lightbulb, and the soul being many layers of fabric. As one develops through the incarnations, more and more layers of fabric are dropped off of the lightbulb and more and more light begins to shine through the layers of fabric. The Spirit and Soul both makeup the true man, but the Spirit is unchanging in it's potential, and it is what makes us all equal deep down.
Ok here's a question... Does good and evil exist objectively. In other words, is there a sort of spectrum of morality or are evil things like murder just simply something that slows your spiritual growth. I feel like you touched on this before and I felt like you were saying that doing anything but good things just fucks up your spiritual growth basically, which I guess kind of surprised me. I had kind of always believed that good and evil were somehow both necesary on some cosmic level, because they both seem to exist in Humans and in nature ("bad" things happen. Hurricanes, tornadoes, etcetera.) It all felt very much to me like there was a cosmic spectrum of good and evil because Good and evil things can be seen at all levels of consciousness. It led me to believe that if someone was a murderer for example, he was born to be murderer and for some reason his murders were going to be necessary on some level. I guess what I'm saying is, do evil spirits exist? Or is evil just like a concept for things we shouldn't do. Plus, I mean, I dunno if all these people are just way off base or not, but a lot of people who believe in paranormal stuff and things like that seem to think that both good and evil spirits or demons exist. I always took that as meaning it's the spirit of an evil person or perhaps like the opposite of whatever an angel might be. You know? I dunno, do you kinda get what I'm saying? lol.
in everything i've learned and come to realize throughout life is that there is no right or wrong, good or evil, there is only opinion. opinion=perception. what, why, how you ask? well i can only say one word without writing a book trying my damnedest to explain something that can barely be conceived. this is something that can hardly be put just in words, and those who wish to conceive it have to destroy (figuratively speaking) their own ego in order to do so. INFINITY. @ Tris. oh yea, and swine stomping on pearls huh? i don't mind.
Hmm, Yeah I guess you're right. I dunno, maybe when I was younger i heard too much christian stuff about good and evil and demons and angels and stuff lol. Plus, you gotta admit, it'd be pretty cool if demons and angels and shit did exist lol. But on a more serious note, I have a better question, more specifically for Trism: If what you say about the afterlife is all true, what's the point? What's the point of spirits existing at all. The way you describe the universe is such that it seems it was created just for spirits to have physical lives. Well why do spirits need to exist at all? Why would god create the spirits, assuming he did, since they're part of him, and once a spirit has completely "unfolded", what then? Has that spirit just beat the game? Sounds kind of anti-climactic, I guess. What's the origin of a spirit? And what is the point of it spending all of these lives "unfolding". I guess, I feel like you've explained the how but not the why. Do you know the why?
Good and evil is a human conception, though they are different polarities. There is no "hot" and "cold", only different degrees of temperature. 33 is "cold"er than 34, yet at the same time 33 is "hot"ter than 32. Yet if you touch a stove, it will still burn you according to your bodies natural rate of vibration, because in respect to your perceptual vibrations fire is indeed hot, yet to liquid nitrogen even 0 degrees is boiling hot. The same goes for the Law of Cause and Effect/Karma. The good and evil exist in respect to the universal standard of vibration of Man, so good karma would be a higher vibration, bad lower. This wasn't any kind of insult, it's just taken from "Cast not your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet" Ah yes, this is the long sought after question, evolution explains why we are here, but WHY is evolution our purpose. This question has been asked since the dawn of a developed self consciousness in man, when we became more man than beast. This question however, has no truly satisfactory answer, because it tries to understand the motive of the Creator, God, and God cannot be truly comprehended any other way but how Nature works. This is a question that has no definite answer, and will not be understood until the point is reached where one may choose to dissolve his or her individuality back into the Primordial Light, merging with the All, and becoming one with God, thus being God and being able to understand God as He is. Why was a universe banged into existence, why are the laws the way they are, why is anything the way it is, what is the purpose of the Absolute making imperfect manifestations when He is the only Perfect thing being complete. I, nor anyone in the entire Universe can tell you the real answer to these questions, because to answer why something behaves a certain way, you must be able to exist outside of it, or be the thing itself. We can understand why it rains because we can take the view of the spectator. We cannot however take this point of view to the Infinite. I'm sorry I couldn't offer you some profound reason why we must go through these things, but the beauty of this question is, we will truly know the WHY of everything upon reuniting our individuality with the All. The origin of the Spirit is in God Himself. The Spirit is One in us all, we are not separate beings in spirit, though separate in our development of the soul. Look at God's Essence or Spirit as electricity that needs no wire, but we will use the analogy of a wire to demonstrate. Visualize a type of christmas light apparatus that does not fail when one bulb is burned out. There are big bulbs, small bulbs, bright bulbs, dull bulbs, bulbs of all different shapes and sizes and brightness and color. Without the electricity running through them, they are not "lights", but merely a grouping of various elements that form the bulb, the way a body is not alive without the life force running through it. The Spirit comes directly from the essence of God, it is what truly makes us "in Gods image", as God is infinite and has no form. I think this is the reason so many people have the idea that God is some Ultimate man or woman sitting outside the universe controlling everything, which is rather silly and childish to think. Though you will see many aspects of mans body that is analogous to the workings of the manifestation of the Universe. There is a reason we have 10 fingers and 10 toes, 5 extremities from the torso, why the brain, lungs, stomach and flesh/bones have the purpose they do. It is all analogous to the various principles of the Macrocosm. As above, so below, As below, so above. The microcosm is similar to the macrocosm, and the macrocosm is similar to the microcosm.
What is it's own purpose? It's not exact but at least we have some idea of a rough and incomplete equivalent. Never forget that at any moment, the dam could burst, and it could all fall. The barrier between us and who we will be is weak if our true self knows no strength.
Trismegistus, Do we continue our spiritual evolution towards reunion with the Godhead only in physical earth? Or do we ascend through a progression of different spheres/universes?