KushBerry, Organic soil?

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by nattings, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. Hi!

    Third time with KB and hopefully a better crop this time.

    Well, I'm just wondering about my soil and nutes are "ok".

    BioBizz all the way, but this time I've tried using fishmix, alg a mic and molasses a little more instead of going straight standard biobizz schedule.

    Biobizz light mix 70% and 30% Biobizz warmcasting for soil, and after week 2 in flower I added some dried bat guano on the top of the soil.
    18L pots.

    600W HPS in aerowing, 19c at night and 27-29c daytime.
    Also got 2 fans for under my screen (scrog) and 1 above.

    Watering every 4-5 days. 1,5L for each plant, I got 5 ;)

    Can you guys help me comment this setup with tips n tricks? :)

    My main problem is the yellow leaf starting in week 6 ish after 12/12 switch.
  2. Biobizz worm castings= problem # 1 . make your own. There is a sticky at the top of the forum. This alone will improve everything

    Bat guano= problem #2. it takes a while for bat guano to break down. You would do better to mix it in the soil to start with or find an ammendment that will break down faster.

    Bottled nutes= problem #3. We aren't a big fan of bottled nutes hear in the organic section. Indoor growing section might be a better place to ask about biobizz. I don't know much about biobizz' line, but I do know that you don't need the grow store to have a great grow. Bottled nutes seem to cause more problems than they fix. You start giving a nute, get some results, then all the sudden somethings wrong and we have to buy a new nute to fix it. One nute leads to another, next thing you know, your broke and you still have yellow leaves.

    50% promix,
    25% high quality(homeade) worm castings,
    25% rice hulls
    -Then to that add 4 cups of some type of rock dust per cubic feet. I use azomite.
    -mix in a little Espoma garden tone and your done
    -Then head over to the botanicals thread(search for it) in this organic section and figure out how to make a kelp/alfalfa tea. Give it every 10 days.

  3. #3 medical grower, Mar 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2012
    The advice already given is sound. I personally like using some amount of guano, but as suggested I would amend the soil with it from the start to give it a chance to break down and blend in. I would recommend using the Mexican bat guano in the beginning as it has higher nitrogen than the Jamaican.

    After that I brew a variety of teas during different stages. Compost teas, botanical teas, and nutrient teas for flowering made from Budswel (EWC's, bat and seabird guano), or just straight Jamaican bat guano have all worked well for me thus far. Brewing teas is very easy and a lot cheaper (and better IMHO) than paying big bucks for bottled organic nutes. All you need is a five gallon bucket, fresh, pure water, compost, EWC's, kelp and/or alfalfa meal, guano, basically whatever gets you hard. Aerate it for a good 24 hours with a nice sized pump and air stone and you're done. Cheap, easy and your plants will love it. You really only need molasses for brewing teas. One tablespoon of molasses in your brew bucket to feed the microbes is all that's needed.

    Also, yellowing of the larger fan leaves around week six into flowering is totally normal in my experience. It really only becomes a problem if its severe. If severe just brew up a tea with a little compost and Mexican bat guano and you should be just fine.

    Read the stickies here in the organics section and learn to make your own teas. Also learn to compost and make your own EWC's. Compost and EWC's take time, but for now you can easily amend a nice organic soil with EWC's, meals, rock dusts, etc and "feed" the soil with your own organic teas until you have your own compost and EWC's. Do this and soon enough your organic soil will be teaming with wonderful microbes! Oh, and you wont have to worry about PH, PPM or flushing again. Ever. ;)
  4. That will be the way to go after I have moved ;)
    Maybe I finally have to learn how to brew a good tea with the small ammount of minerals and organics in my country ;p

    As for the yellow leaves, how much Vintage bat guano and wormcast should I use for the tea? :smoking:

    Since I use bottle nutes(last time?), what do you think about flushing them?
    Last time I mixed molasses and water for the last 2 weeks.
    Cant complain on the result, but I wanna learn more
  5. problem #4 - putting molasses directly into your soil after harming the microbial life with the long term use of chemical nutrients

    molasses is best used in an AACT, not directly into the soil.

  6. Molasses is fine to add to the soil. Tons of people do it. I wouldn't recommend against it myself. But do so in moderation. I don't see how it would harm the microbial life. I do see how it could help though.
  7. did you read carefully? i wouldnt do it after using chemical nutes for a long time......your just asking for root rot.

  8. Sub. Keep the soil info going. Keeping me entertained and teaching me quite a bit. Thanks guys!
  9. #9 Bag O Weed, Apr 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2012
    How is it asking for root rot trying to bring in beneficial bacteria? I am not sure where you are going with this. Maybe an article would help me understand? I have only heard of rot from overwatering and mulching to close to the base of the plant. Overwatering has never been a problem of mine so excuse my ignorance :p.

    Also I read something on google earlier that said something about molasses helping with salt build up. Makes me think it would be ideal to run with chemical nutes. I didn't follow up the article to find a scientific study though. It is common practice to run molasses after running synthetic nutrients anyways. I can't see it doing any harm honestly.

    Edit: On a side note aloe vera (preservative free or mild preservatives) or agave nectar would be a better option IMO.
  10. #10 OhioStateBuckeyes, Apr 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2012
    my thoughts behind it would be as follows:

    after using BioBizz "all the way," the OP will probably have very poor soil life. since your roots are already exudating some carbohydrates, the molasses will not be used by the plant (we all already know this though, just stating it for the noobs). adding extra carbohydrates will give you a very sweet, chemical-e medium (not even worth calling soil at that point) that creates a haven for pathogens. this risk increases with every addition of molasses to the soil.

    every wonder why you have bugs in your soil in a chemical grow? they are thriving because of your use of molasses/bud candy/whatever shit supplement.

    now im not saying your plants will die instantaneously from root rot if you use molasses. however, the use of molasses will create a hospitable environment for bad microbes to live in.......lots of carbohydrates, a barren wasteland of deceased "good" microbes (after long term heavy chemical use, of course).

    theres really only one type of gardener that uses molasses on plants: pot farmers. that should say something about the science behind the use of molasses.............in chemically based feeding programs, that is.....in organic settings, it isnt so bad. i would still watch out, though, too much microbial activity can be bad!! just ask possuum.

  11. #11 medical grower, Apr 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2012
    As stated, yellowing/dying off of leaves after week six into flowering is completely normal so I wouldn't worry about it too much. In fact, around that time I love to see the larger, older fan leaves start to yellow and die. It tells me that the plant is doing exactly what its supposed to at that stage of its life- expending energy and available nutrients to produce big, juicy buds rather than leaves. If you really feel you need a guano tea, though, there should be amount per gallon instructions on the bag of guano. Between one and three tablespoons of guano per gallon is typical. Just keep in mind that true organics typically work slower (but eventually much better) than the bottled stuff.

    Biobizz is a bottled nute, but if memory serves it is a certified organic product. Shouldn't think you would need to worry about flushing unless you put chemicals in your soil. The point is that even certified organic bottled nutes aren't ideal, and they're very expensive. You can do much better for pennies on the dollar after any start-up costs for growing organically compared to bottled stuff simply by learning to brew your own teas ;)
  12. Someone think biobizz is chemical and other says certified organic.
    Well, what would people do if they got my crop?

    I'm already 8 weeks into flower, should I use water only last 2 weeks? OR is it "ok" not to flush cause it aint chemical? Maybe brew a tea? :smoke:

    I'm thinking that flush isnt necessary couse biobizz is organic, and with the yellowing leaves can "prove" that in a way? :p

    Irie67; Whats wrong with biobizz wormcasting?
  13. Basically, the quality of your worm castings = the quality of your grow. If you have low quality EWC then you will have problems. I tried using Wiggle Worm castings a while back and I had all kinds of deficiencies.
    Since Worm castings are worm manure, what you feed them matters. The more nutritous the food, the more nutritious the manure or castings will be. I feed my worms a mixture of pigeon, rabbit, and alpaca manure mixed with leaf mold and I sprinkle alfalfa, kelp, neem seed meal, rock dust, and also give them the spent plant matter from my botanical brews. The Worm castings are very high quality so far.
    Most commercial worm castings come from Canada. Canada uses worms to eat their trash. This is a great recycling plan. It's better plan than what we do just dumping it in a hole, but it doesn't make for good EWC. If you feed them trash, you will get trash as the finished product. These castings are the main supplyer for most big casting opperations. I don't know for a fact that Biobizz gets their castings in this way. But I do know that the difference in my homeade castings to the ones I used before is like night and day. You also have to think about how far the castings had to travel to get to you and how long were they in that plastic bag. There is supposed to be many living microbes in your castings. If they sit in a bag for months, they suffocate. I have mine in a tub open to the air and I just grab a handful here and there when I need them. They are fresh and thriving with life.

    edit: I'd just use water till their done. No reason to load them with nutes this far in. As far as whether to flush, I don't know. Not familiar with the product
  14. Nattings,
    There are many quality Worm farming operations out there. I found one in the next town over. Their castings are awesome. I buy them whenever I run out of my own. They are fresh, they give them to me in a paper bag and they told me all about how they make them which sounded up to my standards. If you tell us where you are located, someone may chime in and give you their source. There is a compost locator thread that Jerry started if you search for it. It is a list of all composting operations around the nation. Craigslist is a great place to fing castings as well
  15. Biobizz is in fact a certified organic product (5 certifications to be exact). The proof of this can be found here: Certifications » Biobizz
    So no flushing is necessary IMHO, and in fact could actually harm your grow. I'd just finish up the grow using fresh, purified water (RO/DI) with no flush. Unnecessary.

    As far as the EWC's are concerned, Irie is right. A lot of vermicomposters (earthworm growers/composters) feed their worms garbage. Garbage in- garbage out. Not something you want for amending your soil or brewing teas with. And Wiggle Worm brand are the worst. Total shit (no pun intended). So my advice is do your own vermicomposting or find a reliable source. Once practiced you can even tell quality EWC's just by looking at the product. Good EWC's will look and smell rich and earthy, about the same color of spent coffee grounds. In a pinch I've used the Roots Organic EWC's and they seems to be pretty high quality, but they are also sourced from many different locations. So you might have three or more vermicomposters from different parts of the country supplying the same company with EWC's. Some may be feeding their worms good stuff and some may be feeding them crap. For consistency raise your own worms or find a local source.

    You'll get there! And I'm sure your current crop will be just fine. Just be patient and don't harvest too early. IMHO even Indica strains benefit greatly by letting them flower to around 10 or eleven weeks. A great guideline on when to harvest that I follow myself can be found here- Zeus's Take on Harvesting

    As Zeus says, "its worth the excruciating wait". :cool:

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