Kofi's No Till Scrog Experiment - GG Allin!

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by kofidog, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. #1 kofidog, Aug 9, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
    Hey guys! Just got back from a holiday in Europe and I'm really chompin at the bit to get a new grow going! My last grow, a Masterkush plant, was an total failure due to a serious imbalance in my soil mix. The poor girl didn't have a chance - according to the post mortem soil analysis I had professionally done, my nitrogen levels were extremely low, while the sodium, sulfur and manganese levels were off the charts! Lesson learned - from now on, I'll strictly follow soil mix recipes from trusted sources.

    Although I do have a few successful grows under my belt, I still consider myself a neophyte. This grow will be my first No Till grow and the soil mix is as per MOFO's recipe at the beginning of the the No Till Revisted thread. I am using my new 70 x 70 x 160 cm tent, a Mars Hydro II 400 LED, and growing in a 10 gallon (~ 38 liter) Geopot. This is planned to be a scrOG grow. I'm using a combination of sugar cane mulch as well as clover as a living mulch.

    This grow I'll be cultivating strain called GG Allin, an indica dominant strain from Southern Star Seeds. Here is a description of this strain:

    The most Indica dominant variety in the collection.

    The motherplant was a strain called Charles Cosby ( LA Affie x Deep Purple Doja) and the father was a Lapis Mountain Indica (Afghanistan Landrace Indica x Deep Chunk).

    This power hitting combination of Indica strains produces a very narcotic high, not for the faint hearted. Performs exceptionally well indoors in a variety of grow mediums, but stand back and give it room outdoors as it will take up all the space it can get. Just like its namesake was in the punk music scene, this is the real deal.

    Big yielder of frosty nugget badness.

    The seeds were planted on the 4th August, and today, the 9th, when I looked into the tent I was pleased to see that 3 out of the 4 seeds I planted have broken ground! And there's still hope for the 4th one. If you look closely at the photos, you will just make out the new seedlings in amongst the newly sprouted clover.

    Somehow I managed to plant two beans right next to each other :confusedalt:. I hope it won't be too hard to separate them without harming them.


    The scrog screen hasn't been put on yet - you can see it off to the right resting against the tent wall.

    I'm looking forward to getting feedback from all you experienced no tillers and hopefully this grow will be a success.
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  2. Subbed.
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  3. Welcome ZTS
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  4. I'm in for the ride bro.

    Sent from outer space...
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  5. Haha, thanks Vegi my man! I can certainly use the moral support! :thumbsup:
  6. #6 kofidog, Aug 11, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
    I decided to go ahead and plant another GGA bean today since only 3 of the 4 that I planted have broken ground. Since these are regular seeds, and not feminized, I have to expect that at least half of what I plant will turn out to be males that will get removed. My idea is to have 2, or maximum 3, plants in the 10 gallon geopot. As far as what I have seen so far, it would appear its ok to have more than one plant in the pot (provided its a certain minimum size I would guess). I've seen quite of few photos of the guys on G.C. with multiple plants in their smartpots. I'll inquire about this.

    On another note, I am starting to see a proliferation of fungus gnats in my garden. Not overly concerned right at this moment; I have top dressed two days ago and again today with neem cake. I don't have aloe as yet, although I went out and purchased 5 small potted aloe plants last week. Obviously I won't be able to harvest leaves from them anytime soon. I'll research what else can be used for IPM in the absence of aloe.
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  7. Hey man,

    When I had spider mites on my garden herbs, I top dressed with diatomaceous earth and used a foliar spray of cold pressed need, emulsifier and peppermint drops. I made sure I kept the spraying up even after they disappeared as they always have eggs which hatch.

    Sent from outer space...
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  8. Thanks Vegi, I'll take your advice on board!
  9. Fungus gnats are mostly dangerous to very young plants. I would only top dress Neem cake once a month, strong stuff. You can top dress ground Malted Barley Grain which will deconstruct eggs and insect bodies in the soil. Yellow sticky traps help out a lot for adults flying around.

    Aloe Vera isn't really an IPM tool by itself. It's amazing as a general plant tonic and helps spread Oils on the leaves for a more even coverage when spraying. Try using Neem/Karanja Oil as a foliar spray for all kinds of bugs and molds.
    Per 1 gal
    2 tsp Silica
    2 tsp Neem Oil
    1 tsp Karanja Oil
    1/4 cup Aloe Vera Juice.

    Here is some more info for you too!
    Integrated Pest Management

    Having a regularly scheduled time to spray your plants is very important in the IPM program. It varies grower to grower and conditions. I spray Monday & Thursday for bugs regardless if I see any or not, pests never take a break and that means you can't either.

    Foiler sprays
    For IPM (every 2-3 days.)
    Per 1 gal of water add:
    1 tablespoon Neem Oil
    2 teaspoons Silica
    1/4 cup Aloe Vera juice

    Stir Neem Oil and Silica in a shot-glass with a bamboo kabob stick (the flat end) until the oil changes color and opacity. Turns a creamy color. If you have a blender, you can get a much better emulsification.
    Mix that in 1 gallon 80F water with the Aloe Vera juice for its surfactant compounds (saponins) and stir thoroughly.
    Use all of it, do not store.

    For washing dust off plants or general spray. For a better plant tonic spray increase the Aloe Vera to .5-1 tsp.
    Per 1 gal of water add;
    1/2 tsp Silica powder
    1/4 tsp Aloe Vera freeze dried flakes
    10ml Ful-Power Humic acid.

    You need to spray at 'lights out''. This is because both the fungicide and insecticide compounds degrade quickly in strong light. By letting the material remain on the leaves in the dark you will greatly enhance the efficiency.

    If you're trying to eradicate Spider mites you must apply every 2-3 days until you have completed 4 applications. 4 is the number required to break the adult-egg-larva cycle. But that doesn't mean you should stop spraying, if you miss just one leaf they will keep spreading. I find it best to keep spraying until you are into flower.

    Neem Oil does work, but the way it works is different from other insecticides. Neem is not an instant, knock down, kill everything pesticide.
    Neem oil has many complex active ingredients. Rather than being simple poisons, those ingredients are similar to the hormones that insects produce. Insects take up the neem oil ingredients just like natural hormones.
    Neem enters the system and blocks the real hormones from working properly. Insects "forget" to eat, to mate, or they stop laying eggs. Some forget that they can fly. If eggs are produced they don't hatch, or the larvae don't molt.
    Obviously insects that are too confused to eat or breed will not survive. The population eventually plummets, and they disappear. The cycle is broken.
    How precisely it works is difficult for scientists to find out. There are too many different active substances in neem oil, and every insect species reacts differently to neem insecticide.
    Neem oil does not hurt beneficial insects. Only chewing and sucking insects are affected. Neem stops insects from eating the plants.
    Part of this action is due to to the hormone like action of neem oil that I explained above. Insects "forget" to eat after they've been in contact with even traces of neem oil.
    But it is also the presence, the mere hint of a smell of neem oil, that seems to be enough to keep leaf eating insects away. Neem oil can be very powerful as an anti-feedant and insect repellent.
    This anti-feedant property is one of the most often advertised and lauded properties of neem oil insecticide. However, the hormonal effects I described above are even stronger.
    Neem oil as an insect deterrent works well against grasshoppers and leafhoppers, but all other insect pests are controlled mostly through the hormone action. The hormonal effect is where the real power of neem oil lies. It's the key to neem oil being an effective insecticide and good for the environment at the same time. It's also important to understand this effect to use neem oil insecticide correctly.
    The subtlety of the hormonal effects, and the fact that they may take days or weeks to manifest, makes people overlook them. Ill informed gardeners seek instant gratification, i.e. lots of dead insects immediately, rather than a balanced environment in the long run.

    Essential Oils as Green Pesticide
    Essential oil constituents are primarily lipophilic compounds that act as toxins, feeding deterrents and oviposition deterrents to a wide variety of insect-pests. In fact, pesticides derived from plant essential oils do have several important benefits. Due to their volatile nature, there is a much lower level of risk to the environment than with current synthetic pesticides. Predator, parasitoid and pollinator insect populations will be less impacted because of the minimal residual activity, making essential-oil-based pesticides compatible with integrated pest management programs. There are several examples of essential oils like that of rose (Rosa damascene), patchouli (Pogostemon patchouli), sandalwood (Santalum album), lavender (Lavendula officinalis), geranium (Pelargonium graveolens), etc. that are well known in perfumery and fragrance industry. Other essential oils such as lemon grass (Cimbopogon winteriana), Eulcalyptus globulus, rosemary (Rosemarinus officinalis), vetiver (Vetiveria zizanoides), clove (Eugenia caryophyllus) and thyme (Thymus vulgaris) are known for their pest control properties. While peppermint (Mentha piperita) repels ants, flies, lice and moths; pennyroyal (Mentha pulegium) wards off fleas, ants, lice, mosquitoes, ticks and moths. Spearmint (Mentha spicata) and basil (Ocimum basilicum) are also effective in warding off flies. Similarly, essential oil bearing plants like Artemesia vulgaris, Melaleuca leucadendron, Pelargonium ros- eum, Lavandula angustifolia, Mentha piperita, and Juniperus virginiana are also effective against various insects and fungal pathogens (Kordali et al., 2005).

    Citronella (Cymbopogon nardus) essential oil has been used for over fifty years both as an insect repellent and an animal repellent. Combining few drops each of citronella, lemon (Citrus limon), rose (Rosa damascena), lavender and basil essential oils with one liter of distilled water is effective to ward off indoor insect pests. The larvicidal activity of citronella oil has been mainly attributed to its major monoterpenic constituent citronellal (Zaridah et al., 2003).

    Diatomaceous Earth
    Is made from the fossilized remains of tiny, aquatic organisms called diatoms. Their skeletons are made of a natural substance called silica. In order to be effective as an insecticide, diatomaceous earth must be food-grade. It causes insects to dry out and die by absorbing the oils and fats from the cuticle of the insect's exoskeleton. It can kill any bug with an exoskeleton with sharp edges that are abrasive, speeding up the process. It remains effective as long as it is kept dry.

    Remember, what you spray on your plant is absorbed into the plant and flower material, so read carefully about products and use as directed
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  10. Oh yeah, and I'm subbed up!! Haha

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  11. WOW Hey Prepper, THANKS HEAPS for that effort man. That is really helpful. Oh! And welcome!
    Hey, I've got some left over potassium silicate from a couple of years ago, but I'm not sure if its compatible with no till gardening. What do you think? Sounds like pretty toxic stuff? I think this might actually be for hydroponics.


  12. And here's some of the other amendments that just arrived

  13. I wouldn't use this. Better safe than sorry. I use AgSil16H and Grow-Sil.

    You could as grow your own Horsetail and use that as it is like 90% Silica I think.
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  14. NTS threw this little sample of soluble humate granules in for good measure!


    Ufortunately we can't get many of the products like Agsil here in Australia. The silica I pictured above is local. But the good news is that now there are more companies starting to sell good quality amendments here in the last couple of years, so I'm sure I can find something more compatible with organics than what I have.
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  15. Diatomaceous Earth? It's a very good source of Silica.

    Sent from outer space...
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  16. This is true Vegi, but from my understanding supplements like Agsil seem to be preferred for use in the approach to no till expoused in the No Till Revisted thread. Not sure of the reasons though.
  17. Oh ok I didn't know this. Might have to look into why Agsil is preferred. I've checked here in the UK and you can't seem to get Agsil. Need to figure out an alternative.

    I assume it's because DE kills critters.

    Sent from outer space...
  18. That's probably part of the reason but I suspect there something else as well..
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  19. #19 kofidog, Aug 24, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
    Ok, a quick update.

    For the most part, the GG Allin girls seem to be doing okay. 3 of the girls are 15 days old, and one is 8 days. The difference in size is striking. The bigger ones all developed 3 nodes and working on the 4th, whereas little GG4 seems far behind with barely 1 node developed. She looks strong and healthy otherwise. Maybe it's a little soon to worry about it - she could take off at some point. We'll see.

    Learning all this No Till information and methods is really interesting, if not a little overwhelming at times! I've made a couple small batches of soil for my outside garden beside what I made over a month and half ago for my indoor cannabis. But I'm really enjoying working with the earth and applying what I learn in the organics forums to my gardens.
    In this first photo, you can see the 3 older girls and if you look closely to the lower left center you can see the little seedling (a bit blurred, I forgot to turn the fan off before shooting the photos!). See how striking the difference in size is when they are only a week apart in age?

    There she is, almost dead center...

    The reason the soil looks a bit greyish is because on the night before this photo was taken I had top dressed with diatomaceous earth and then next day watered. So some residual d.e. is still there. The two girls on the right of the picture somehow got planted close together. I was advised by an experienced no tiller (Waktoo?) to leave them be and let nature take it's course. I think I can live with that.

    I plan to follow Mofo's watering schedule but I'm still waiting on my Tasmanian bull kelp to arrive for my neem/kelp tea! Got everything else ready to go. I'll be watching the growth pattern on these GG Allins. They are an indica predominant strain so not sure if they stay really short and squat of if they will stretch enough to scrOG nicely. Time will tell.
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