This is in response to SmokeeTheBear and his post about the logic of Jesus not being the only way. I think it's a good topic of discussion, so here is what I was trying to post before he deleted his thread. What about this: Jesus was a Rabbi with a revolutionary message of the heart. Meaning that he knew the secret of morality, which he told his followers when asked what the greatest commandment was ("Love God with your whole heart, and love your neighbor as yourself"). So, we have that, and the fact that Jesus never talked about hell (all verses that we have used to try and build our theology of hell are either in parables or metaphors. For example, Gehenna was the name for the town dump outside of Jerusalem. It was always burning, because trash was always being burned there). If Jesus never talked about hell, and Judaism (ancient and modern) has no concept of hell, is it likely that this is something god would have hidden from his people for thousands of years? So where does that leave us in regards to Jesus being the only way to heaven? In ancient Israel traveling rabbis were quite common. They had what was called a yoke, which was a set of teachings. That gives a new meaning to "my yoke is light" by the way. When followers would espouse that yoke they would say they are following the way of that rabbi. C. S. Lewis said that truth is truth no matter what the source. So, Jesus recognized eternal truths (make humanity better here and now. Don't wait for heaven to come to earth. Act heavenly upon the earth). In that, he is the way, and at the time, when other rabbis were teaching others how to simply fit into the religious institutions, and yet others were teaching that the Messiah was going to come and demolish the Romans, Jesus was the only way. He was teaching truth, while others were promoting falsehood. Just food for thought.
Cant one be truthful, moral, and a good person leading a good life (deemed by the divine), and not have to follow religion, or pray, attend church or any other of those odd rituals? Perhaps Jesus knew of the only way, and described it in one of the best ways he could for people in that time, truely a special being of his time, divinity aside. But could we explain it better now, after reflecting on his words for 2 thousand years, I think so. I think that if there is a heaven, then following jesus would probably get you in there, but if the rest of humanity had to worship this one man, and ultimately god, for the rest of our existence....what if we survive for a few million more years? Will they still speak of Jesus as we do? I would have a hard time saying yes.
That's the point. In the context of Jesus and the New Testament, in the small country of Israel, Jesus was the only one preaching these things with conviction. When he said things he wasn't talking to the whole world and all future generations. He was talking to about 70 people, sometimes a few hundred depending on where he was. So, yes, people can be good people and further humanity to do god's will. Gandhi taught the same message of Jesus. Follow that message, and you have done god's will.
Wow, thank you so much for posting this, I'm now so sorry I deleted that thread. For anyone wanting to know, my post about the logic of God not condemning anyone to hell simply on the basis of their belief in Jesus was this: Would you condemn someone to hell solely on their belief or disbelief of Jesus? Do you think God is more merciful than you are? I said a bit more but what nisism said what I feel much better than I had, again, thank you so much for sharing. He taught the truth, a truth that still needs to be heard and understood by many to this day
What would you do if we found God through science? Perhaps we somehow peered into the fifth dimension and opened some kind of wormhole, and he was just there chillin, "About fucking time!" haha.
You ever heard the spoof of "What if god were one of us?" Called "What if god smoked cannabis?" Hilarious.
the bible is not the only place that the jesus guy was written about..... according to other sources...(wish was simple as posting a link....) religion began because of what man can see of the universe from here..... [Wink] [smoke] man looked up long enough to notice the patterns in the sky.... the great cycles....the way the sun and the stars would be in the same places year after year..... they saw this great cycle as proof that there was in fact something out there bringing order to this great movement of the heavens..... (they haddnt heard of gravity) but they saw the stars as the language of god.... and created all types of stories and beliefs.....which started in the sky.... and new groups ...developed new creeds.... and they fought each other because they each believed something different...... still to this day those stars follow the same patterns.....even if not so many still look up to them..... and to this day....those who think they know what it all means....make war on each other over their differences...... one day we may be lucky enough to kill each other off for good..... fuck the world i am against everything that tells you how it is supposed to be! everything is always changing........by the time your done telling me how it is supposed to be....it will now be time for it to supposed to be something elts.....but you will still be stuck back there...thinking you have it all....when all you have is out of date.... how it is supposed to be is a wast of time... how it is .....now that one mite want to be concerned with...... how it is.... it is liquid....it moves and flows ...it finds the simplest way between the stones..... to think you know just slows you down.... some need this....they need to be told how it is.... they want to be led.... they only get as far as they carry their leader....... there is only so much one can learn from another..... the rest is alone......or it is not real fuck the world! save yourself! sound selfish? not at all...... it is the perfect answer to everyones problems.... you see if each and every person individually stopped worrying about what is wrong with everyone elts..... and instead devoted all of that energy into fixing what is wrong with themselves.... into doing things that make them feel good about themselves.... while respecting one another for doing the same....... fuck the world!!! fuck them all ....you cant fix them!!!! stop trying!!!!! you can only fix yourself.... and in doing so lead those close to you by your own example..... so they in turn can stop worrying about what is wrong with everyone elts and fix themselves.... you want to feel good about yourself? do something you enjoy everyday...no mater what.... if a part of your life is dragging you down...do something about it ...make a change...no one can do it for you.... treat those around you the way you want to be treated in return....regardless of your differences....do this first and foremost for yourself....the effect it has on others around you will just be a bonus...... we can each only "fix" ourselves.... the only way for any real change to happen is individually.... on your own.... the entire idea that ones ideas may be better then anothers....has caused more war and pain in this world .... you want to be a leader who people follow.... lead by example instead of with your words.... lead by never asking for more then you are willing to do yourself.... when people see a light in the darkness....then tend to go see what it is.... when people hear a bump in the night...the pull the covers close and hope it was nothing at all..... and in the end you will care more for those round you then you ever did when you were to worried bout whats wrong with them to fix yourself.... and maybe-without even trying-be a bit of a light in the dark yourself...
dingus, I get what you're saying. I just can't bring myself to say "fuck the world." However, I do agree with your statement of just working on ourselves and those around us possibly being influenced by how we live.
how you say it doesnt matter at all.....those are just words.... it is what we do with the idea behind the words that counts in the end.... besides...fuck the world- is how i put it when i first tried to explain it to people when i was 15years old.....i actually wrote it on the back pockets of all my jeans for school the only way we truly influence the people around us is thru our actions..... i can tell you(anyone) a thousand times ...why they should do or not do a thing...until they learn for themselves...it doesnt mean much to them.... if you watch the young....you will see that the children whos parents live how they would like their kids to live.....have very few problems with "raising" their kids....while those who sit back and yell at their kids to do as they are told.....especially those parents who say "do as i say and not as i do" have tons of problems.... children dont do what you say.....they do what you do..... and this is reflected in us as adults......when people see something working for someone elts....they will give it a try we can have a far greater impact on others ...by being the change we want to see in the world around us.... it is not a new idea.....it just happened to find its way to me thru an unusual rout in effect...by saying fuck the world..... you are doing it more good then harm you put your energy then into being what you want to see....and who knows how many may follow
Here's my take on Jesus: Jesus is and always has been the Sun, our Sun. All religious stories and timeless myths and fairy tales tell the same story: the story of our Sun as he travels through the sky and through the zodiac. All religious stories are elaborate fictions to help us understand the cycle of the Sun and its bodies through space, to help us understand ourselves. We live in a cosmic atom, and each of us are galaxies unto ourselves. The earth is a singular organism as well as a particle of an atom, a piece of dust. We are all stardust. That should be beautiful enough to explain life without making up stories of fictitious people.
Bottom line: What Jesus taught was a good way to live. LIVE it. Pretty simple message. The * question, what * is...and all the REST ...isms/schisms are simply just secondary. Whether you believe Jesus was the literal Son of * (except for Christians) is neither here nor there....there is not a part of what Jesus taught HIMSELF that cannot be connected with a good way to live.
Despite being a Jew through and through, I regard Jesus as the greatest prophet (and Kabbalist) who has ever set foot on this earth. He understood the dynamics of reality and how to best manipulate those dynamics for a peaceful life of loving-kindness and selfless service to others, something that every Jew on the planet is charged to do, but few do. I quite like the Jesus of the gnostics. His message was much more radical and much more centered, IMO. I think he was a great teacher because he was able to bring the laws of heaven into the human realm, without all of the flowerly language that many older wisdom traditions use to portray the same truth.
it really is a shame how misused that message is today........ so often they take what they want and unknowingly leave the best behind....
Hehe....I think of it as a little sun exuding its rays....double symbolic...heh ********* This one would do as well..used it before ~