Jesus and Lucifer

Mormons believe they were borthers.

Jesus is Elohim's (God) first son and Lucifer is his younger brother. All humans were born in Heaven in the spirit world, but had to come to Earth to learn good and evil so that we can become God's ourselves. Jesus proposed a plan that gave humans a choice as to whether they'd be good or evil. Lucifer proposed forcing people to be good. Elohim chose Jesus' plan and Lucifer lead one third of the spirit children into rebellion to try and overthrow Elohim. Jesus lead a third of the spirit children and defeated Lucifer. Lucifer and his followers were forever banned to Earth in spirit form. Jesus' followers are white people and the third who did not follow Jesus or Lucifer are dark skinned people.

According to Mormon theology.

 

ohhh shit my mind is blown

 

The conventional belief is that Jesus is God, as the holy trinity is concerned (God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit; in three distinct parts that make up a whole, God).

Ask me why Christians believe that God sacrificed himself, to himself, to appease himself so that he could overturn the eternal condemnation that he himself imposed... and I will tell you that I don't know how the fuck people believe it.

+Rep to Perpetual Burn for your insightful post. Did you know that only in the last few decades was it part of the creed that black people could only live in heaven as slaves? Mormons and their theologies...

What is more perplexing to me is the fact that when you ask a religious person why they reject other religions, they apply critical thought and skepticism, but when it comes to their own faith it becomes free of the same scrutiny.

Sorry for the side note, it is a bit off topic... sounds all like Medieval Scholasticism to me.

 

Even according to Christianity Lucifer was the highest, prettiest (for lack of a better word) angel. Most full of light. Hence the morning star. However, there was some cataclysmic event in which he rebelled, and managed to bring a good number of angels with him. He was thus cast out of heaven.



I'll GTFO now.

 

Close. I hate misrepresentations about another's faith, so I'll just correct one minor error. Lucifer never proposed a plan. God the Father had 1 plan, a plan which involved free agency, and asked "whom shall I send?" to both Lucifer and the premortal Jesus, Jehovah. Jehovah responded "thy will be done, Father" and Lucifer snaked around it, saying "I can force people to come unto You," thereby ignoring what the Father's will was (to have people come unto him by their own accord -- uncoerced). God the Father got mad, Lucifer became a fallen being, and then was cast out with 1/3 of the Host of Heaven. This is an important distinction to Mormons because they recognize that Lucifer had to fall in order for Elohim's plan to work.

This isn't exactly right, either. The idea was that black people were born black because they were somehow "less valiant" in the pre-existence, and as a result were born with the mark of Cain (a skin of blackness). They were not allowed to hold the priesthood until 1978, when the ban was reversed by revelation, according to the Mormon General Authorities (12 Apostles and other auxiliaries as laid out in the New Testament- Seventies and so forth). Note: this teaching wasn't at all just a "Mormon" teaching. It was incredibly prevalent amongst the Southern Baptists in the mid-late 1800s, that black people were black because they were the children of Cain. This was one of the justifications for slavery.

There was never a teaching that black people could only live in heaven as slaves. If you know otherwise I'd be interested in seeing a reference, as I've never come across anything like that in my 8 years studying Mormonism both as a hobby and in school.

 

Damn man you know your shit..

 

I didn't intend for it to be an "oh snap" moment, I'm just sharing knowledge.

 

God damnit. This is what I get for listening to Bill Maher without being skeptical (he may have just said it as a joke, though). Either way, my bad.

 

Haha Bill Maher is the man.

And no worries, like I said I'm just trying to share knowledge. I didn't spend a good bit of my undergrad years studying Mormonism for nothing.

 

I am athiest and never have understood religion only because there are so many beliefs and variations but wow this blows my mind even when I am sober. Great post OP and everyone who has contributed with facts.


*Edit* So according to Mormon belief, Lucifer had to fall in order for God's plan to work. Now since I dont know much about the bible could it be that Lucifer actually took on the responsibility and the burden of being cast out of heaven?

 

No. Had Lucifer not fallen another being would have. The Book of Mormon, which is a book of scripture on equal footing with the Bible for the Mormons, says " For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so...righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility."

Lucifer sought to force all people to worship God. God's plan, according to the LDS church, is one of complete agency -- choose good, or evil. Lucifer fell because he wanted to usurp God's power and and take over His throne. The principle of agency worked when Lucifer fell, as well. 1/3 of the Host of Heaven decided to follow Lucifer, instead of God, and were cast out alongside Lucifer.

 

LDS don't believe in original sin right? And that Jesus was in North America (for a bit?) and Native Americans are from the tribe of Ham?

 

No, they don't believe in original sin. They believe that all men will be punished for their own transgressions, and not for the act committed by Adam in the Garden of Eden. This is why they believe all humans to be clean from sin until the "age of accountability" which is 8 years old.

Yes, they believe that Jesus visited "the New World" (not necessarily North America) after his resurrection.

No, they don't believe that the Native Americans are of the tribe of Ham. That would mean the people in the Book of Mormon were utilizing a false priesthood. They believe the Native Americans to be the among the descendants of a group of Israelites that traveled to the New World around 600BCE. That group would have been of the tribe of Manasseh.

 

Thanks for the clarification, stoner_lukas... I actually like that version better. It strengthens Mormon theology, in my opinion.

Now, is it known what exactly Lucifer and the fallen angels do with their time on Earth (are they considered angels?) Do they try to influence people? Do they still have the same motives to force people to believe in God, or do they no longer love God and try to move people away from God? Do they try to make themselves into God? Could it be said that Lucifer and his followers loved God the most and did not want to give people the choice?

As I recall, there are three levels of Heaven... is Earth a level? What determines what level a soul goes to? How do souls advance levels? Does Earth double as hell? Is there a hell in Mormonism? Does a "damned" soul join the other spirits here on Earth? Are souls eternal or can they die?

Should I just read the Book of Mormon?