i'm not giving a definate answer... i'll let you decide for yourselves. the following quote is talking about the first seal judgement of God after the rapture. in other words, it's talking about the antichrist. "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering and to conquer." - Revelation 6:1-2 Antichrist will go forth conquering and to conquer. he's given a crown which shows that he is successful. if you'll notice that he has a bow, but no arrow. this shows that he's going to conquer peacefully. here's my question. what is it now that the world wants more than anything? if any of you pay attention to the news, you'll notice that there's more people protesting this war than anything else in the history of the planet. 1 day alone there was a 10,000,000 person protest against the war in Iraq. the biggest ever recorded. there were literally hundreds of thousands of people from countries all over the world protesting. what do they want? PEACE. what will the antichrist promise? PEACE... i'm not saying the end is going to happen now, or even in our life times... i just think it's interesting how the world is prime for the taking.
goat balls and mashed potatos?! so is george w the antichrist..hes doing this all supposedly in the name of peace...and is very open about his religious beliefs...maybe just a satanic guise?
antichrist will be from the eastern hemisphere... at least according to scripture. bush isn't antichrist. BUT if all this happens while he's still in office, it'll explain why America isn't mentioned in the scriptures as a world power. after antichrist has conquered, he'll be in control of the world. BUT there will be a few countries out there who revolt against him... and they'll be squashed. "And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword." Antichrist takes peace from the earth by totally destroying any countries that revolt against him. knowing bush... if this all happens while he's in office, he's going to be one of the countries that attack... then this country will be wiped off the face of the planet... hence the reason we're not mentioned (this just being a theory of course). WWIII will happen... not sure if america will revolt or not.
red? china...russia..japan...maybe india?..i dunno...russia i would guess....but..then again..its 3 am. damned physical exhaustion but extreme mental awareness...kinda.
the apocalypse as portrayed in the bible is directed at the roman empire. armageddon was nothing more then a junkyard outside of jerusalem, also known as gehenna. any biblical scholar will tell you this. the entire (apocalyptic) text is written as a means to keep spirits up among christians during roman repression. "we will get our revenge" kind of psychology. it has absolutely no value in todays geopolitical situation. and how much hallucinogens was the author of those texts influenced by anyway?
cottons, you talking about this war specifically? wouldnt this be the thrid seal? if you would believe..?
Honestly when it comes to the bible I tend to think it's the message that's important. Isn't it at all possible that if there was a god then god was simply trying to instill a fear of power mongering in us so that we never reached too far too soon? It's not congruous with any patterns in this existence that anything (god or not) would make something like life and then end it. Life and much of the universe (perhaps ulitmately everything) are built on patterns. None of it is completely linear. Our life cycles are cyclical (duh) and our thought patterns go one way or the other (we seperate things into two extremes, good, bad, etc. though I think it's important to not put everything into completely black and white terms) . Anyway, my point is that it's impossible to take everything in any holy book at face value. The people who do this are the ones that fight in the name of god. They are the ones who find a way to believe that they themselves are just and right because they follow the bible exactly as they interperet it. It's too easy to do horrible things when you think you're always justified by god. Perhaps, if there ever is an antichrist, the one thing that makes the difference between him and all the megalomaniacal leaders of the past is that he will be completely oblivious to any notion that he's not right, and he will sit in the largest concentration of power to yet exist in the modern world. There are many things in the bible that we can't take seriously and also live the way we do. If so many other details are iffy (a lot of the stuff pertaining to sex, women, as well as many 'sins' that occur in our daily life) or even contradict each other then why should it be so that the antichrist will come from anywhere. Maybe if there's a god he can't see the future any better than any of us (though time may not be any more linear than the rest of existence...,) so anything speaking of 'the future' is actually a vague representation of what someone decided might happen some day, things they wanted people to avoid, whether they knew the real reasons for it or not. Maybe the one to ruin it all will be the one who is oblivious to the message while being surrounded with the words, that also has the power to effect the entire world.
first, i'll start with sensi. no... this war isn't the third seal. the first 4 seals (aka the four horsemen of the apocalypse) are as follows, the white horse (antichrist), the red horse (war), the black horse (famine), and the pale horse (death). Antichrist will come proclaiming peace, and will become ruler over the world. then WWIII happens. war breaks out but antichrist destroys the opposition. then famine and death pretty much coinside with eachother after the war. none of this happens until after the rapture (when Christ comes to take those who are saved to heaven so they don't have to endure the Tribulation Period). one day millions will disappear without a trace, as it says in Matthew 24 (paraphrasing) '2 will be grinding at the mill, one will be taken and the other left'. it also says it'll be as in the days of Noe (Noah) which shows that the times are going to be really bad (like they are now), and that it'll happen suddenly (like the flood). now... onto zylark's post. yes, that is one theory that some have about Revelation... that it was talking about rome and all that. but MOST on the otherhand don't believe that. mainly because most of the stuff in revelation never happened with rome. ie, there was no 144,000 jews that got saved and went throughout the world preaching the gospel. there wasn't 2 witnesses in jeruselam proclaiming antichrist for who he really was during the roman empire like what will happen during the tribulation period. so yeah... it's a bit more convincing when looked at that way.
anyone else think its dangerous to have fundamentalist christians who beleive in the fire n brimstone revelations ending of the bible, in control of the most destructive devices known to mankind? "Tell me when lord, tell me when." - The late great proffet Bill Hicks (killed by those he sought to expose) doing impression of fundamentalist christian american pressident with hand hovering over 'the button'.
I could draw it but I didn't create that, it's a comic book character (http://www.jthm.net/) Thanks though .
oh boy, these topics again. "how it's all in the bible, just got to have faith brothers and sisters, hallelujah!!!". well I'm quite worried about these hyper christians talking about apocalypse while keeping their fingers on the "nuke button". and what about that "spread christianity all around the world" stuff? is it right to force people to believe something? people who believe in koran and islam are not converters they don't force their religion to anyone. Not saying that islam is any good either but at least they're not banging on your door and stopping you on the street. Ok let's think that the apocalypse is coming next week "what are you goin' to do about it?" nothing theres nothing you can do if this "wrath of god" comes upon humanity. and is it right to kill all life just because humans have done badly? isn't that a little bit egoistic way to think? me man, me the center of the universe...... god looks like me. me me me me ME! and just something to think about "sometime ago everybody knew that the world is flat"
you could probably interpret the bible as being about taco bell if you really wanted to. and besides, i have a hard time believing in prophecies
first off... the Bible says to preach the Gospel to all nations. meaning give them the chance IF THEY WANT TO to get saved. if they don't it's their choice. some people still try to force it, but they shouldn't. if it comes next week, cool. you're right, there is no stopping it. i just posted this to provoke thought... not to start an argument. oh, and another thing you're right about. the Islamics don't go door to door... they just blow you up while you're riding the bus, or shoot you in the head if you refuse to deny the Bible. now, mind you, they don't do this to everyone... just Christians and Jews... again... just like the Bible predicted thousands of years ago. you can not believe in prophecy all you want... but when so many of them come true it at least makes me wonder. did you ever think that maybe the person knocked on your door, or stopped you in the street because they're concerned? ever think that they're doing it because they don't want people to go to hell? i bet not... again, this thread was meant as something to provoke thought... not another debate. we already have one of those going if you wanna debate, post in the other thread... if you wanna talk about how it's at least interesting that this stuff was written so long ago and is happening, post here no hard feelings?
it doesnt really make me wonder.. me and a bunch of my friends could easily spend our lives writing vague, symbolic prophesies and a bunch of them would 'come true'. anyone could..
that's the thing though... most of them aren't vague. there's one in the old testament speaking about islam (before it was a religion). it mentioned people who would bow to the sun (the east), hate the God of Israel, and cause a lot of violence. now we have islam and the islamic fundamentalists that are always blowing shit up. fitting the prophecy exactly. there's another that speaks of a falling away of the churches right before the end times that is currently in the process of happening. there's one that speaks of a great power from the north (most believe this to be russia), along with mideastern allies which will attack israel to wipe it off the map... but will fail. this hasn't happened yet, but it very well could. we already know russia's very friendly with the mid-east... and that both russia and the mid-east hate israel and would love to see that nation gone. (i actually read a newspaper article a while back concerning this... not the prophecy, but the possibility of the attack). i could go on listing prophecies after prophecies that are very specific, but i'm sure no one wants to read such a huge post.
The thing that in the bible it was prphecied that there would be an opposite religion to chrotoanity and that they would hate christian s isn't very suprisin 'cos everything has and opposite version and it usualy hates the opposite. And have you considered that bible and koran have been read all over the world for so long that maybe it's the reason causing these things? that sub consiusly people are following the "good book" I know this is ridiclous I don't believe it myself but it must have some effect that if trough your life you've been told about these things and you've forced to read the book generation after generation after generation...?
i don't quite get what you're saying with the second part of your post. the whole "opposite religion" thing doesn't make any sense. atheism is an opposite religion to every other religion in existance, yet they don't share the same hatred for those religions as they do for Christianity. as for the first part. i guess the writer just guessed that the "opposite religion" would bow to the east when they pray? hmmm... i can think of only 1 religion that does that. i guess he got the hatred for Christians and Jews with a lucky guess as well, huh? i'm sorry, but that's a legitimate prophecy, that's very specific, that came true. a group that bows to the east, hates the God of Israel, and is the cause of a lot of violence. i can only think of 1 group that does this... and the thing is, this was written BEFORE this group even came into existance... how can you deny that? quite simply, you can't. another prophecy... it's said that people will hate Christianity especially ("people will hate you for my name's sake" - Jesus). and it's true. look at the world today... say you're any other religion and you're accepted just fine. say you're a Christian and you get all kinds of criticism for it. preaching Christianity is banned in several countries. there's also the countries that if you preach it the civilians will just simply kill you. the 9-11 attacks were just attacks on America, they were attacks on Christianity (seeing as how America was founded on Christianity). i watched this thing on tv about the taliban and all that. they were showing some videos from one of the terrorist training camps... all the dummies and targets they had to "kill" all had crosses going across their chests.
whatever you say man, if you want to be all bible reading apocalypse preaching "wiseman" then so be it I might aswell start reading the watchtower..... I know my post wasn't really great or wise and in fact it didn't have an exact point expect the fact that you supposedly base your knowledge in bible? Maybe there was an islamic religion due to the times of the writing of the bible. And why do you think people hate christians? because christians are the biggest worldwide religion and they make the most noise of themselves. You don't see buddhist TV shows, you don't see adds calling "turn now to Islam and be saved" You don't have Moonies knocking on your door every other day, and most notably you don't have any other religions so firmly rooted in politics than christianity. And if the ISlams are hating christians is it then right for christians to hate Islam?