How To SCROG

Discussion in 'Advanced Growing Techniques' started by trojangrower, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. #1 trojangrower, Feb 9, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
    I have been scrogging for a number of years now and thought that I would share the knowledge I’ve gained. I understand that many different methods exist for SCROG, but I am going to share my methods. Please feel free to add your comments and also your own methods to the thread if you like.

    SCROG stands for ‘SCReen Of Green’ and was coined in the 90s (I first heard it then, it could be earlier) contrasting another popular technique known as SOG (Sea Of Green). The techniques differ in that SOG uses an nth amount of plants to fill a grow space, whereas SCROG tries to develop a uniform canvas using less plants, even just one.

    In this tutorial I will be explaining how to use SCROG techniques to maximize canopy space resulting in increased productivity of your cannabis operation. I say maximize, although this can be debated; whereas a single, untrained plant will give rise to a large central cola, which could easily outmatch (in weight) the many colas from a SCROG’d plant, the many colas from a SCROG will result in more flowering material to have the light required to produce top shelf product. Also, SCROGs doesn’t matter what media you are growing in (within reason). I’ve scrogged in peat, coco, and several hydroponic systems. I also believe you can scrog some very large areas out, where I myself have achieved >1 square meter footprints, I’ve seen others achieve much more.

    I start my training after 3-4 nodes of the plant have developed (Figure 1). You can use more or less, but when I get to 3rd or 4th node, I top the plant. I try to top just below the foliage that is getting removed. I do this to prevent the stem from splitting apart later on (Figure 2).


    upload_2019-2-9_0-23-7.png

    Figure 1: The early topping of a seedling will result in 4 mains



    upload_2019-2-9_0-23-28.png

    Figure 2: Topping too close early on without leaving some stalk can make the central stalk prone to split. In this case, the main stalk was split down the middle, but repaired with a ziptie.

    Following the initial topping, the plant is left alone for another 2-3 weeks (depending on vegetative speed) before I again top each (of the four) mains. I leave at least one full node in between cuts (Figure 3).

    upload_2019-2-9_0-23-41.png

    Figure 3: After the production of four main stalks, the plant is allowed to grow until several more nodes appear. Nodes (on one main) are numbered + circled in red. The plant is again topped at the (circled) 3rd node.

    The idea of this kind of topping is to get a geometric pattern that will allow for a large canvas area. A little bit of branch LST (light stress training) is used to separate the main branches, but otherwise the plant is left alone to develop vertically.

    Let’s take a top view look at what is going on. You can see in Figure 4 that the first cut (blue circle) results in the production of four mains (in blue) which are allowed to grow, and then are cut once more (red circle) resulting in a total of eight additional tops. This doesn’t include the extra nodes you left in between either. By doing it this way, you allow your plant to reach each direction pretty evenly.

    upload_2019-2-9_0-23-57.png
    Figure 4: geometrical representation of topping tactics.

    The plant is then allowed to grow vertically until the desired height is reached.

    But what is the desired height? That depends on how the dimension of the desired scrog. Let’s say you have a 3’x3’ tent (one square meter), I would probably plan for ~8-10” distance between the pot and the trellis net. There is 1.5’ distance in each direction from the center of the tent, meaning that I would need ~1.5’ (=18”) plant height + the 10” stalk height (ie. 10+18 = 28”); but this is considering ‘right angles’ so add a couple more inches, say a ~30-32” plant height from the soil (not including container) (Figure 5).




    upload_2019-2-9_0-24-12.png

    Figure 5: A) 3’x3’ tent would ideally have a plant of ~28-30” height following training. B) plant measurements after the trellis is set.



    Once the plant has reached the ideal height (28” in this example), we will be adding a trellis net (ie. screen) but first, lets talk about HST (high stress training). Its not really called HST, but given that this sometimes feels like I am breaking someone’s arm (icky) I figure it’s a reasonable term. We want a plant that is going to be 10” tall from pot to trellis, sometimes the mains are easy to just guide to the sides, but most likely, you will need to gently bend the branch with a slight twisting motion at the ~10” mark. I find that this part is easily done if I take all the foliage from one-main-at-a-time and tie it all together (with a string), so that I end up with four bundles of foliage. I then start below the 10” mark and start bending slightly, twisting the entire time. Sometimes I hear/feel the crankling sound; this is normal and the stem will repair itself, but be careful not to crack the main! You want to do this for each main in each direction (N, S, E, W). *If you have a 2x4 tent, you will want to set main to point to each corner instead.

    Now we lay the trellis down. I’ve tried some polyvinyl trellis nets with 2” holes (figure 6a), but had to support them by running a length of fiberglass (or bamboo) down the lengths. The reason is that the plant will push the net up, even if its tied down at the corners. This isn’t a huge problem, but lately, on larger scrogs, I’ve built a support out of ½” PVC pipes and used a plastic lattice normally used on decks (Figure 6b). I find this heavier and better suited given that the spacing between each hole is already pre-set.
    upload_2019-2-9_0-25-33.png

    One nice thing about the lighter (6A) trellis is that it can be ziptied directly to the inner poles of the tent.




    Here’s an example of a trellis using the lighter material:

    upload_2019-2-9_0-26-2.png
    Figure 7: sides of the trellis were supported with a fiberglass driveway marker and then ziptied to the inner poles of the tent.



    Here’s a closer look at the bent mains (HST):

    upload_2019-2-9_0-26-14.png

    Figure 8: Closer look underneath the trellis of a scrog’d plant.

    I wouldn’t recommend using the lightweight trellis for a larger area though. Either create a stiffer trellis, or purchase a lattice structure and build a cage as seen in Figure 9.

    upload_2019-2-9_0-26-42.png

    Figure 9: ½” pvc was used to create a support cage for a heavy lattice used during scrog.



    Once I have placed the screen down onto the plant and everything is tied down, I begin positioning each top to a specific opening. I don’t want them too close to each other (but I’ve done it) and would rather use the heavier lattice because it allows some space for each developing bud. But I want to make sure that there is a top or a node at each hole. If the tops are too long, I cut them, or just leave them out the sides.

    I should mention that the trellis is usually dropped during the veg-flower transition period. Given that each cultivar/plant will stretch differently, you sometimes have to place the screen a little bit into transition; sometimes I place the lattice after one day of flower (if the plant is known not to stretch much), but sometimes I wait a week+ and then place the trellis. If the plant is expected to stretch a lot, wait a week (after 12/12 is set) and then use the net or you will get stretchy monsters!

    I continue to set the individual nodes and branches to each hole. Foliage that is too short to reach the canopy is cut off. Foliage that is too long is repositioned. I get this done in the first couple days after the net is placed and then I let them be. *Do not cut/top any tops during transition or during flower period; you can supercrop branches that are too tall.

    Experimental: remember we left the central nodes between the 1st and 2nd toppings? These branches can be used to fill up the central part of the trellis. I have lately been crisscrossing these 4-8 branches at the center, but this is tricky to do without a partner (maybe use some twist ties?).

    This is going to be tricky to draw… Figure 10

    upload_2019-2-9_0-27-7.png

    Figure 10: branches developing from the lowest bracts (off the mains) are crisscrossed at the center of the plant. This is opposite of the way the mains were bent during HST. This is done to get some colas in the center of the trellis.
     
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  2. I’ve added a few more pictures to help people understand the concepts I presented.

    upload_2019-2-9_0-28-49.png

    An example of training between 1st and 2nd topping. This made the HST easier later on. Note that much of the bottom has been defoliated (lollitopped).


    upload_2019-2-9_0-29-4.png

    Before and (one week) After

    upload_2019-2-9_0-29-20.png

    Before, immediately After, and a few weeks Later.
     
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  3. Excellent write up, you have put a lot of time into this, it's a hard world being a perfectionist isn't it. I know that too...
     
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  4. Holy shit yes!! This is what I’m talking about!! Great thread!!!! Absolutely phenomenal!! I wish I’d had this before I did this. might have actually filled the screen.

    Saving the link and will be using it when people ask for references!


    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
     
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  5. Very thought out and well put together tutorial. Great contribution!
     
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  6. Definitely using this for the rest of my grow thankyou !
     
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  7. Adding a couple more under-the-canopy pictures and a picture of the crisscrossing that I explained earlier.
    DSCF2462.JPG
    You can see the knuckling on the stalk that occurs due to HST.
    DSCF2463.JPG
    DSCF2464.JPG
    Innermost branches off mains are crisscrossed at the center of the plant to fill the center area up.
     
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  8. Nice write up! That criss crossing is what I had a hard time with last grow. Good stuff dude!
     
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  9. Bro i cant even begin to thank you enough for this setup, this report, the articulation, the thoughtfulness, the work. Thank you.

    I've been looking all over the internet for some good, solid, helpful, pictured help for scrogging and LST and whatnot, but it always comes up just shy because it goes one way or another.
    I appreciate that you used the drawn figures especially for geometric representation in topping. THAT was key for me. My mind had been envisioning exactly what your diagrams provided.

    Last season, which was my 3rd outdoor grow, I topped each plant (4), but I made some errors and broke one, one turned male on me, one was just too leggy, and the last one i partially broke. So, needless to say, I was highly frustrated and thats why I want to utilize this method. It is easy enough to top, bend, and stress, especially with good help like this.
    Cheers!
     
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  10. Someone should probably sticky this thread ... so much info that I have searched for in the one place
     
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  11. I usually top my plants, but only get two new tops. How is it, that you get four new tops in one topping when there are only two growth points?
     
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  12. Each node produces a new top on either side.I cut off the top 3rd node, so I have two nodes remaining, which will produce four new mains.
    upload_2019-2-14_15-2-46.png
     
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  13. Hmm, I top above the third set of true leaves as well. There are two nodes on either side, and those two nodes produce 1 new top each - 2 new mains total. I still do not understand how you end up with four in one topping. Maybe I'm just not drinking enough coffee?

    ANyway, I went to read that linked journal, very interesting. Once I get some new photo seeds and can mostly veg outside, I'll start experimenting with cuttings and this stuff! Love learning about new stuff. This is such a great hobby.
    Maybe now I need to start drinking Pepsi? :)
     
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  14. Thanks for these pics. It really made me understand the layout for placement .
     
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  15. No what happened to me when I attempted to put it on yesterday was that I cracked my main stem on one of my biggest plants. My heart sunk. I wrapped some plant ties in a figure eight for now as I had to leave but I need get home today and duct tape it all up. My Concern was If I try to force it under a scrog now I may lose the whole plant. She split about 2 inches dead centre down the middle of the main.
     
  16. #16 trojangrower, Feb 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
    Yes there is a danger of that; its part of the reason I recommend leaving some space above the node that was topped. Also, when bending the mains, I press the mains towards each other a little so that splitting doesn't happen. Better to make multiple small bends than all at once.

    *edit: here's a closeup of the topped area. Note that I left a stub on.
    upload_2019-2-17_16-8-49.png
     
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  17. Nice thread - well done my friend. :)
     
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  18. When you make the second cut , do you cut all 4 at the same time or one at a time with time in between to heal?
     
  19. @ the same time.
     
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  20. Thanks!
     
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