How easily can you silence the left brain chatter? (titled edited)

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Mnemonicsmoke, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. #1 Mnemonicsmoke, Jan 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2010
    Disregard what ive written below this line, it has created too many misunderstanding
    One last ditch at clarification.
    The question should have been
    How easily can you silence the left brain chatter? The internal narration, the reminders to check on the stove, the inner dialogs, the images of the attractive women/men you saw today? That kind of chatter, how easily can you let go of it and simply be? It is foolish of me to imply this constitute "nothingness" or nirvana but I made the association that you need to silence said chatter to recollect the "nirvana"

    I was trying to relate my experiences with silencing this chatter, I tried to say that when I was younger I had an incredibly difficult time letting go of it. It was tormenting, the obsessive thoughts I had made it unbearable, I was unable to go to sleep and it eventually led to a depression stage in my life

    Recently however I've been much more able at silencing these distractions, and since distractions are a large obstacle for me in successful meditation ( I assume everyone) I was really wondering how easily you can do what I describe, that is let go of the "internal chatter"
    Man, If i just said this in the first place this thread may have actually been productive, I apologize to those who voted on this poll, these results are skewed and this is my fault, I should have been much clearer
    alas the damage is done, and lessons were learned
    and many thanks to the posters in this thread, for without them I may have been unable to make this clarification
    When I meditate it seems like it can be very easy to abolish all thought. I wasn't always like this, but when I started taking meditation seriously and meditating every other day, it seems like i developed an aptitude for it

    The writer of this post, the guy writing these words, he is not enlightened, this dude cares about things that are nonessential to nirvana

    However the writer of this post is capable of reaching states of mind almost completely devoid of any thought in a matter of seconds, without having to meditate, chant or get stoned. I just simply let go, and the thoughts are gone, the peace returns

    and to me, it is very easy. But this was not always so.
    I've been diagnosed with a cornucopia of maladies, in chronological order:
    ADHD, PTSD, Major Depression, Hypomanic Bipolar, Psychosis (dissasociation, derealization) and schizoaffective disorder

    however perhaps because of these maladies (irrespective to the precision of the diagnosis) I think i've developed some pretty impressive coping mechanisms

    I can type this message and suddenly let go of all the associated thought, return, blankly stare at this screen, remember what I was going on about and continue. When I meditate I am able to maintain this "nothingness" for longer periods of time which is a very refreshing experience

    honestly, If I weren't able to reach this nothingness so easily I probably would be either be insane or dead

    But I'm interested, how is it for you guys to find the nothingness? I remember when I first achieved it, it was only after a lot of meditation and it was accompanied by an out of body experience, this is something i've yet to experience again (without drugs) but finding the peace to me is just being
    willing to look inside

  2. I can do that...basically I just daze out and a calmness comes over me , one that I don't want to get out of, and my thoughts shut off. It's just nothing. Of course I can't sustain it very long... I think a lot of people can do this...?
  3. Yeah, I'm sure everyone can do it. I just don't know how easily it comes, or how easily, as you said, they could sustain it.

    I know there are a lot of factors, like how relaxed your are, setting and what not, but you know, overall, how easily is it done?
  4. I'm inbetween these two

    That's pretty impressive to do it at will. I think if a lot of people start jumping on the bandwagon saying they can do it too, they aren't thinking about being devoid of thought...just sort of relaxed and detached from the thoughts.

    I can go thoughtless for about 20-30 seconds. Then I'll get a sudden shard, like the beginning 10% of a thought forming. Then I'll stuff it away and go for another 20.

  5. Its not that i'm able to maintain thoughtlessness for very long periods, in fact i'm really not that good at it,
    I am good at voluntarily banishing my thoughts for a good ten seconds even when i'm really involved with the thinking,
    after the ten seconds its more like 5 seconds of thoughtlessness in between forming and vanishing thoughts,

    it is only deep into meditation that I can maintain this consciousness for meaningful periods

    and as you said most of the times its rather like detached thinking or minimal thinking, especially during the beginning of the meditation, its hard to maintain "nothingness" because my body just tends to collapse on its self and i'm not fit enough to remain in a meditative pose for very long

    I have considered laying down instead of sitting for meditation but that generally just results in dreaming/sleeping
  6. Think non-thought.
    It comes with persistence and patience.
  7. Hmm..

    I sit with my back against the wall and prop myself up against it with my legs just crossed like a child. I don't think I could last very long either if I was trying to stay perfectly erect with my feet looped around eachother.

    Yes, the detached thought switch thingo is really helpful in stressful situations. They should be teaching that in elementary school alongside addition and vocabulary
  8. Its kind of frustrating, but posting this. Being aware of others being aware of how I meditate, it was extremely distracting when I tried meditating yesterday

    It seems like i'm trying to talk about something we don't have a shared word for, but the "momentary banishment of thought, followed by detachment of arising thought" became a lot harder after posting this

    it seems like I inadvertently created a self that was attached to this forum and made it harder for me to let go

    its funny how these things work out
  9. Nothingness is everywhere

  10. Yes, but my fingers are always in front of me.
  11. And the fingers are nothing. If form needs non-form and non-form needs form, where is the line?

    I don't want to be a Negative Nancy, but I highly doubt you are reaching Nirvana... and probably not even catching a glimpse of enlightenment. You said there was an out of body experience... true Nirvana would contain no body or non-body to be in or out of. And for it to only have been reached under the influence is another bad sign... enlightenment should be indepedent of drugs.

    Whatever you are experiencing is probably just an opening act to enlightenment. If it makes you happy, go with it.

    Be Love. Merge with Evertyhing.

  12. You're absolutely right. I'm definitely not enlightened
    I want to make some clarifications though, the out of body experience was before I had taken any drugs, maybe I'd gotten drunk once before but thats irrelevant I suppose.

    This is a big misunderstanding, this whole thread. I did not mean to state that I was able to reach enlightenment on a whim. Rather that I had a certain "skill" in seperating myself from the conscious chatter of the left brain, something entirely different though necessary (in my opinion) to exist in the consciousness of the right brain (again my opinion) where I believe enlightenment could be experience.

    Honestly, I apologize for any arrogance I may have shown, it was not my intention, but I can be very impulsive and write posts without the necessary thought.
  13. No worries... I don't think too many people care too much about this stuff. Emptiness, Nirvana and enlightenment aren't just adjectives to be tossed around in Eastern thought. Westerners will call someone who is smart and easy-going enlightened... but Nirvana and enlightenment have very specific meanings and are not easy to realize. Although anyone can reach enlightenment at any time, it's just not something an LSD trip is going to give you... and Nirvana is like the perfection of the path of realization. Not just being happy.
  14. i know exactly what you mean by this left brain chatter

    i often have this going on in my head, because typically i dont talk very much but i think a lot, about everything and anything, analyzing constantly

    the only times this LB chatter is completely shut out, is playing music, either jamming with my band mates or playing music by myself

    also, surprisingly, when i make a fire from scratch, using a piece of flint, making various stages of kindling etc, the only thing on my mind is the fire, and everything else gets blocked out, its like a form of meditation and i only realized it after the first couple times i did it. Kind of like your just basking in your accomplishment of making fire, and sitting by it gazing at the energy licking up towards the sky
  15. when meditating you should not try to empty your mind. you should let your mind go free and roam, and observe and question why you think are thinking what you are thinking in order to find ones true self and reach enlightenment

  16. Thank you for the reminder, I did not mean to be so reckless with the words, as you probably realize, language can be a very big barrier in communicating these kinds of ideas

    I also agree, that an LSD trip will not necessarily yield any experiences that may be regarded as enlightenment and perhaps experiences altogether different. I would not venture to say that I have become enlightened, but I have had many illuminating experiences (sorry about the pun) (It truly was unintentional) both meditating and through hallucinogens

    What I mean is consciousness shifts, being aware of experiences very much different from my quotidian life. I should say, that as a teenager (younger one) I was very opposed to the use of any kind of drugs, be it aspirin, cannabis, lsd, or heroin. I meditated however and found myself experiencing states of minds that at the time were quite fascinating. The loss of feeling of space and time for example and the feeling of "existing above my body" to me were completely new and opened my mind to the possibilities of the consciousness (truly an incredible leap when all you got to reference is your daily life) Meditating I've also experienced "seeing" my body through my tactile sensations (in absolute darkness) and other wonderful phenomenon that really have made existing a lot more interesting. hehe :):confused::)
    I suppose none of the above would constitute "nothingness" but as I learned about eastern philosophy, it seemed like buddhism and taoism were pointing in the right directions in...let us say..."expanding the mind"

    I did not stop, as you seem to have, to consider that enlightenment could not be achieved with the use of drugs.

    To me these states of consciousness (at least to some degree [not the subjective experience]) can be explained by electrical/chemical changes in the brain, drugs would only serve to recreate similar experiences. However, I do believe that even if these experiences are recreated, the drugs themselves do not enable one to learn from their experiences, to take any value from the possible lessons, this I think is rather a choice, that requires an open mind in the first place

    From what I've read a lot of buddhists are opposed to using psychadelics as means towards reaching enlightenment. If you are able, could you answer specifically why?
    Does it have to do with the indications in the eightfold path of not harming the body?

  17. I agree, i've been experimenting with meditating with my eyes open with a candle in front of me, in some ways, I find this a lot less distracting then closing my eyes.

    as far as the music, that seems to make sense, doesn't it? After all music is usually processed in the right hemisphere. Most humans process language in their left hemisphere and music in their right, also the processes of one hemisphere tend to have a balancing effect on the opposite.
    That is to say they supress each other, this is one reason why autistic savants can be prodigious in certain areas. Because parts of their brain aren't as "functioning" they are also unable to inhibit the process of other area's as well

    Result: [ame=]YouTube - Stephen Wiltshire: The Human Camera[/ame]

  18. This was indeed my original approach. To be honest, I can find merit in both approaches, I mean It helps finds clarity.

    Could you tell me why your method might be more valuable?
  19. Only when I'm stoned.
  20. Enlightenment can be obtained with drugs, but not because of drugs. If a Buddha gets high, he is still a Buddha. But to need a drug to reach a state is relying on a non-self and creating a duality.

    Well, I can't really speak for Buddhists... but I would imagine it has to do with lack of desire. If you need a drug to get to an enlightened state, then you will want that drug. You will have to sacrifice to obtain it and you will create a self-with drug and a self-without drug.

    But from what I've gathered, most Buddhists would not tell you you can't do a drug... Buddhism is about reality, not morality. The Eightfold Path isn't really a rule system... more like a measuring stick.

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