How do you know what you know?

Good question. Strange Ice Cream example to start things off though

 

For me, in any given moment, what I know feels like what I know. But only in that moment. By not holding onto what I know so that what I knew always becomes what I know again, I allow something else to be there next time, perhaps something similar to what was there before if it's still relevant, only clearer, realer, or something else entirely. I don't want to feel that my knowing something means I must hold onto what that is, feel like I've acquired something, even defend my position if necessary, UNTIL something comes along to change my mind. I don't wish to be right or wrong, only work with what feels to be right and true at the time. This allows me to let go of things that no longer work for me, and recognise what they are, more easily than waiting to be proved wrong first. It also keeps the ego out of it which ain't no bad thing.

 

when i was a kid, and someone told me not to do something because of this or that, or something wasn't true or right or wrong or whatever, i would always take it upon myself to find out first hand.

most of the time i was wrong, and would find out the hard way.

but still to this day i believe that everyone should at least try find out the truth firsthand instead of secondhand.

experience is key i suppose.

 

The only source of knowledge is experience.

-Albert Einstein

 

Im the type that rather travel the path and discover what's at the end over someone telling me what's there. I believe what i do because of what i have learned along the path. But it takes faith to stand behind it and believe it is in fact true. And of course always be open to entertaining other ideals and pursuing even further along the path.

 

i don't think it takes faith.

you don't need faith for something that's true and real. it will be regardless of how much faith you have.

 

Thing is, Billy can go and get some ice cream to show Bobby it's real. He can then continue to deny it's existence if he wants, but Billy can always show him ice cream when there is doubt. Can't do that with God.. unless he is one of those people who cop out and say "God is everything and everywhere".

 

Sounds like the old joke, "God seems to be everywhere and nowhere at the same time."

 

I suppose it depends on your idea of sufficient reason. Everyone going to have different standards on different issues. I think where we're really disagreeing about is what counts as support to a statement. Can we rely on anecdotal statements? Is there no value? Some may not appreciate the evidence that reproducible and may not accept it .

We also have a knowledge bias. despite a sound logic presented to us , if a conclusion seems strange we unconditionally resist it fairly stubbornly.

 

I don't know anything. I also don't have any beliefs. If you have certain beliefs.... then that kind of closes your mind to OTHER ideas/theories/beliefs.... So I just stay as open as I can be, and I question anybody that acts like they know something.... I have several different theories to most of the main questions in this existence. But WAYYY more questions than anything.

 

i don't know...

i can only know what has worked for me...

even if it doesn't necessarily 'make sense'

experience has shown me time and time again

 

If everyone is special, no one is.. Lol, pretty much the same concept. Same goes if everything in the universe was literally blue, there wouldn't even be the concept of blue (or color) as there are no differences to compare it to.

 

I know right I never got it when people said stuff like this.


Like this one day this one person was all like "everyone has special and unique fingerprints"

So I was like, "If they're all special and unique then they're all the same dummy!"

 

I don't see how special and unique equates to being all the same.

 

Why is it a cop out if they believe it to be true?

It's a lot easier to argue against those who have an anthropomorphic religious idea of god because it's full of illogical inconsistencies - understandable because it must be a human mind-made construct. But something actually approaching what would be more real can't be dispelled so easily. The ego doesn't like this because it's not very satisfying. Saying the words 'cop out' disparages someone who believes what you do not.

 

It's a cop out because the logical part of their brain is telling them that there is zero evidence for an anthropomorphic god, yet their emotional side (the ego) can't let go of the feeling.. so they hold onto it and say God is everything, just in case they're wrong. They'll label everything from the formation of the universe, the universe itself, the spontaneous, random formation of life, evolution, plants, animals, humans (atheists n theists, alike), emotions, everything as God. I don't see the point.. If everything and everyone in the universe is God, then there is no real point in even having a positive belief. God is you, he is me, he is the 2 Boston bombers, he is your preacher, your mother, your father, he is the cow that was slaughtered for you to eat, he is the fork you use to eat himself in cow form, he is your car, he is the pollution you put out, he is the air that you breathe and the water that drowns, he is everything. Which is the same as nothing..

Unless of course they believe in a personal God, but as you said, that's illogical.. which I only take one step further. As you said, it satisfies the ego, and that's cool, I'll never throw a rock or physically attack someone for their beliefs in person. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, entitled to voice it, but entitled not to force it on someone.. Internet posts can't force anyone to do anything unless they don't have a spine to begin with. We all have our opinion, I'd rather state mine hear than running around telling the majority of the world that they're belief is unfounded, illogical, wrong, dumb, and/or attack them for it. I'll never physically attack a person for their beliefs, it'd go against my 'treat others how you want to be treated or treat others how they treat others to show them how it feels' belief. I don't want anyone attacking me for my belief.. why would I attack them?

That doesn't mean we don't have our opinions. Hell, I really really dislike certain groups of people, but I won't ever encroach on their right to life.. If they feel an internet post is encroachment or an attack, then they should just not read it.

 

You're making an assumption and a generalisation here. Some people might do it like this. Doesn't mean all do. This is just the way you see it.

There seems to be no point to you right now, but then you're actually missing something.

You're seeing it in a way that doesn't help understand this approach. By letting go of the anthropomorphic idea, what you have left is something not easy to define, that's why the anthropomorphic idea is so dominant. It gives people something to hang their hat on, but unfortunately, the price for this is to also hold them back.

I don't know if I can say anything here to give you an insight into my perspective on this other than to say we're all connected. That connection seems to make itself known from time to time in a real way depending on the state of mind I might be in. I'm sure you've had moments when you've felt something like that. Even quantum physics is coming to accept this interconnectedness. The sum of the parts makes up the whole, so from that perspective, we are god because this connectedness creates something far more than just each individual bit could add by itself. But there must be more because if everything is god then what we perceive as outside, separate, isn't, it just feels like it. So this god thing, being everything, has an intimacy in a conscious way, that transcends this apparent separateness, making who we are and what we do something far more than what we currently have access to. Like I said this is not easy to put into words. The more open to these ideas we are, the more substantial the experience becomes to reveal this to be true. The proof of it, if you like, may not be proof to anyone else at any given moment, because only you can see what you see. And I assure you that there are things I see that just make me feel very humble at the incredibleness of it all.

Fair enough.

They might not realise it is until after they've already done so.