Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by g0pher, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. Is homosexuality really natural? I know that the World Health Organization and American Psychology removed homosexuality as a mental illness, and I know that scientist found out the biological difference between homosexuals and hetereosexuals. But are these evidence sufficient enough to prove that Homosexuality is natural? Here are a few quetions I have questionting the idea or statement that homosexuality is to be considered natural.

    Why is it that we humans were made to reproduce? (Now if you're thinking i'm trying to bring religion and God into this, please do away with those thoughts. This is not my intention. I do not want any misunderstanding )Without reproduction then a species would less likely continue its existence. If it is true that reproduction and heterosexual relationships increases and preserves the human population, then what about homosexuality? What purpose does homosexuality hold to human survival?

    Why is it that most people are attracted to the opposite sex? Sex without sexual drive or motivation would less likely allow us to reproduce. Sexual drive exists to increase that possiblity of reproduction, but what about homosexual drives? Does it gives positive benefiting results?

    Well man... I guess that's about now. I'm not trying to say homosexuality is evil or wrong, if that's what some of you might think, i'm trying to see what some of you might think. I would obviously meet those who support the statement that homoseuality is normal while there will also be those who object that statement. I personally don't approve homosexuality as being completely natural, but I don't have strong and rational arguements to actually support it.

    Opinions on this...?
  2. QUOTE: What purpose does homosexuality hold to human survival?

    To immediately nail it down to a question of 'is it necessary to our survival', is irrelevant and weighting the type of responses you can get to the question. Prayer, cell phones, music, tacos, weed, oral sex between heterosexuals, love even - are all totally unnecessary for our survival, but many engage in them every day, because they bring pleasure and comfort. If someone should find that a person of the same sex provides them with the emotional support and love they need to live a happy and fulfilling life, then there's no need to seek reasons for it as behaviour, or judge it on its merits regarding the future of the human race.

    In a sense, what you're doing by phrasing the question as you have is to ask people to value the 'need' for homosexuality and 'is it natural?', inferring that if it isn't there for the sake of procreation or not the accepted norm then it has no purpose. Not everything is about reproduction, there are plenty to take care of that, this is about personal needs and a right to happiness in whatever form of consenting sexuality you choose.

    What is 'normal' sexuality? Heterosexuality in the missionary position? If that's the case then none of the tens of common heterosexual fetishes such as anal sex, spanking, dogging, S+M, etc. etc., are normal either, or necessary for our survival. So should we judge them in those terms?

    Although stat's put the amount of gay and bi' people as being about 2% of the population, the figure for those outside of the accepted norm is far more if you include those heterosexual people who have homosexual fantasies (and cross-dress too). Read any book on sexuality and you'll find that almost everyone has such a fantasy at sometime in their lives. What is normal and natural? Just a social idea of a fixed extreme. We can cite a definition of normal that all we heterosexuals apparently adhere to, but very few do in the secret confines of their own homes.

    We need to remember too that many animals engage in homosexual behaviour just for the hell of it, so again, what is normal and natural?

  3. homosexuality is 100% a fabrication of the human element. Other species may engage in homosexual activities, but only because they are fulfilling their natural urges and quite possibly don't know that they are hitting on a dude. Humans are the only species who have sexual tendencies towards the same sex simply to get off. Male chmps and dogs that hump other males are only doing so because it is their natural instinct to continue thier species and to spread as much of their seed as possible. Having said that, humans (whether people like it or not) are derivitives from apes and still, very much so, have their natural urges to procreate. The difference is that humans posess the intelligence to diferentiate what is continuing their species and what is being a hornball.

    Even though the time it takes for any damage to be done to a species is quite large, thats just the way it is.

    However, it is NOT detrimental to survival OR natural selection. It only speeds up the process. Those who choose (are born with...whatever) that lifestyle are forfeiting their responsibilities to continue their species. And by not doing so, they only target themselves to be a casuality of natural selection. Not to say gays aren't 'fit'.... but in the survival of the fittest, homosexuals give everyone else a lifetime head start.

    So technically, they don't even give themselves a chance. Reproducing is a monumental part of being a species. Taking that ability away takes your chances for survival away and puts the species future in jepordy.

    So no, homosexuality is not at all 'natural'. I have no problem with it whatsoever. IMO, if someone does have a problem with gays, they are neandethals. Homosexuality is a very relevent aspect of current human life. Someone who refuses to accept that refuses to accept change. I personally just don't like to physically see it. But thats my opinion.

    Theres a difference with something being 'natural' to a species and 'natural' to an individual.
  4. If Dolphins have gay sex, and they often do, is it natural? Yes, it is! It happens in nature all the time, and most humans have far more homosexual urges than they will admit to publicly, read the Kinsey report, it's one of the most respected pieces of research done, from when admitting gay urges was an incredible social taboo. He established a scale which rates humans 1 to 6, with 6 being homosexual, and 1 being totally hetero. He found that almost 90 % of his interviewees were somewhere in the middle. Naturally.
  5. interesting
  6. g0pher you seem a bit shaky.. you're natural, man, dun worry we dun care if you gay yo

    and yeah iz natural.. you've never seen confused animals before?

    I think the words "sex" and "drive" are enough to view this topic as "natual".

    question:: why is this in the sprituality and philosophy section? Simply cuz it's g0pher's fav or what? Porkin' brown eyes with yo member is hardly spiritual or philosophical unless you're Freud or smthng, who himself was abused btw and is certainly biased in every way.

  7. Actually, The pygmy Chimpanzee, or Bonobo, of the southern Congo, is a species of ape which more frequenly uses sex for other means than reproduction. The Bonobos, Though similar in apearence to the Chimpanzee, are an extremely peaceful species, who are known to use sex to avoid conflict. These apes have sex in every possible combination of male-female, female-female, and male-male, etc, and conciously are not doing so for reproduction. Here is a quote from an anthropology text that I am currently studying.
    "First, anything, including food, that arouses the interest of more than one bonobo at a time tends to result in sexual contact. If two bonobos approach a cardboard box thrown into their enclosure, they will briefly mount eachother before playing with the box. Such situations lead to squabbles in most other species. But bonobos are quite tolerant, perhaps because they use sex to divert attention and to difuse tension. Seccond, bonobo sex often occurs in agressive contexts totally unrelated to food. A jealous male might chase another away from a female, after which the two males reunite and engage in scrotal rubbing. Or after a female hits a juvinile, the latter's mother may lunge at the aggressor, and action immediately followed by genital rubbing between the two adults (de Waal 1995, pg. 87)"

    Clearly, the bonobo uses sex as a means of pleasure and of personal gain, not simply because they dident know who they were mounting.

    SO, to answer the question of the OP, Yes, I do believe that Homosexuality occurs naturally in nature. Because lets be honest here, who wakes up in the morning and decides "Hmm i would like to open my life up to social ridicule, intolerance, and hatered from those around me"?
  8. Sex is sex.
  9. its natural. come over here and i'll show you how natural it is, big boy
  10. i can't believe people would compare themselves to a friggin dolphin or ape. the homosexual lifestyle has been creeping it's way into the mainstream for years. the parades and t.v. shows are an attempt to desensitize our moral standards. homosexuality is a choice, and a creepy one at that. i put them on the same level as those nambla jerks.

  11. don't hate something you don't understand. you are not inside the mind of a homosexual to say that it's their choice. read a science journal for chrissake
  12. and i suggest that before anyone continues discussing, the term 'natural' should be defined. it's one of the vaguest words in the history of humanity and has plagued too many scientific discussions. i've seen it many many times.. unless you specify what you all mean by natural, the discussion will go nowhere, very fast. I don't really have anything to say on the issue- i havent read shit on it

  13. thats really intriguing. the bonobo is one of my favorite animals..... by far my favorite great ape. looking at them its often hard to tell them apart from chimps.... the main difference is their skinless faces

  14. you sound like a bigot who is somewhat homophopic. get with the times man
  15. It's natural, but not normal.

    It's definitely not a choice either. Like bandit420 alluded to, nobody in this society, which is obviously overrun with disillusioned bigots, would actually want to be gay. I find it to be civic duty by film and television producers to portray it as an acceptable act, not only to help end unfounded homophobia but also to teach the persecuters a lesson in life. Heterosexuals do not see homosexual behavior in art and and think, "I'll join in." Art imitates life... and obviously (to anyone whose taken the time to study the matter) homosexuality is very natural.

    Does anyone else think it could be natural in a sense that it is a sign that human beings are ready for the post-evolutionary stage of it's existence? Maybe "God's" telling us something...

    Remember, Gopher, "God" made homosexuals... not man. ;)
  16. I think homosexuality is generally a matter of aesthetics more than anything else.

  17. i'm no bigot. i love how people can throw that at you if you don't sign off on their beliefs. homophobic, hummm, maybe. i mean, if i had to choose who i wanted around me, gay or not gay, i'd pick not gay. but then, if asked to pick if i wanted a chick sitting next to me or a guy, i'd pick a chick. how does that correlate? get with the times??? i don't let "the times" dictate what i think is right or wrong. i hate homosexuality, not homos.
  18. Do you let an ancient fairy tale dictate your beliefs, or is there another reason why you hate homosexuality?
  19. Yeah, I'm sure all the homosexual kids in school made fun of, ridiculed, and demeaned him on a daily basis for his heterosexual beliefs.

    Oh, wait...

    GrowBot, whether you're a self-identified bigot or not... the fact remains that your initial post was highly bigotted.

    "I can't believe [mammels] would compare themselves to a friggin [mammel] or [mammel."]

    If you have no pre-set moral standard on homosexuality, then it is impossible to be "desensitized" on the issue.

    Comparing consensual homosexual activity to child molestation might not be bigotted... but it's one helluva cognitive bias.

    Think about it.
  20. don't ya just love the way we have been able to cloak, our forefathers true beliefs, with that, which science can explain?

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