I’d like to start by commenting on these few quotes you made - And then maybe we can go from there since nobody else seems to want to answer my questions. “People are dying and going to hell” They are? How many? What kind of a percentage do you believe are going to heaven and what kind of a percentage do you believe are going to hell? “God Himself wrote this great book” I thought that man wrote this book over many long periods of years? “ do you mind if I quote some scriptures? “ Please do! I especially want you to quote scriptures that show how many people God has killed, the gays that God wants to kill, the women that God wants raped and the children that should be put to death, & the cities burned. Let’s start with those scriptures. “Only God is truly good“ He/she is? See my comment above about the killing of gay folks, the raping of women, putting children to death and burning cities just to start. Do you think that these things are good? Do you think that putting billions of people that follow other religions in hell is a good thing? Good? Do you think that threatening people with eternal damnation is a good thing? Unless you do exactly as I say but not as I do you’ll spend any turn it he of pain and suffering. This is good? “If you die without Christ, you will spend eternity in Hell.” So, unless you’re a Christian, you’re telling me that you’re going to hell, correct? This means that the billions of people that follow other religions will be in hell, right? I’d love to talk about more once I get these questions answered. Thanks, J
No idea but that has nothing to do with whether they are or not. Men wrote by inspiration from God. In other words God used men to write down His word. I don't do bible studies with pagans, however I will point out that you don't know jack about what the bible teaches. I've been there...I was unsaved most of my life and used much of the same arguments. I don't expect you to like or accept it..that's fine. [qutote]“If you die without Christ, you will spend eternity in Hell.” So, unless you’re a Christian, you’re telling me that you’re going to hell, correct? This means that the billions of people that follow other religions will be in hell, right?[/quote] I wouldn't put it exactly that way, I'd say it the way the bible says it: "unless you are born again you will not see the kingdom of God" which is to say yes...any that aren't born again followers of Jesus Christ will die in their sin and be justly punished in Hell. We all deserve it, we don't deserve anything BUT Hell...God is more than merciful to save any of us. I don't think you really do...I think you are just like me and all other believers when they were unsaved...just looking to win the argument and make the poor Christian defend himself...and prop up your unbelief. The fact is...you DO know that God exists...you may supress that knowledge but waaayyy ddddeeeep down....you know it....I know it. I'd say this: please repent of your sins, put your trust in Him for your salvation before it's too late...He's a merciful God.
I wouldn't put it exactly that way, I'd say it the way the bible says it: "unless you are born again you will not see the kingdom of God" which is to say yes...any that aren't born again followers of Jesus Christ will die in their sin and be justly punished in Hell. We all deserve it, we don't deserve anything BUT Hell...God is more than merciful to save any of us. I don't think you really do...I think you are just like me and all other believers when they were unsaved...just looking to win the argument and make the poor Christian defend himself...and prop up your unbelief. The fact is...you DO know that God exists...you may supress that knowledge but waaayyy ddddeeeep down....you know it....I know it. I'd say this: please repent of your sins, put your trust in Him for your salvation before it's too late...He's a merciful God.[/QUOTE] So there’s around 7.6 Billion people living in the world. Around a third of these people pole are Christian. So you’re telling me that 2/3 of the worlds population, or around 5 Billion people are going to hell - for an Eternity of damnation - because they aren’t Christian - no matter how good of folks they are? The very old monks in Tibet, the holiest of Buddhists, as an example - they’re going straight to hell - right? Poor Indians living in the jungles of South America - good people but have no access to books or Christian teachings - just trying to live - their children are friggin going to Hell youre telling me??? “He's a merciful God“ Really? Merciful? Sending non-Christian children to an eternity of fire and damnation? That is merciful to you? Why is it, that with this many people in the world, with a wide variety of religions, with many practicing good, honest loving behaviors, loving their neighbors - GOOD PEOPLE - yet you tell me that they’re gonna burn in Hell for all eternity? Literally 2/3 of the worlds population - because they aren’t of your religion - they’re gonna spend a miserable ETERNITY after what maybe 75 years on earth - but no matter how good they are - none of it even matters because they were raised in different religions - an eternity of misery. Yep. If that isn’t merciful then I don’t know what is. J
So there’s around 7.6 Billion people living in the world. Around a third of these people pole are Christian. So you’re telling me that 2/3 of the worlds population, or around 5 Billion people are going to hell - for an Eternity of damnation - because they aren’t Christian - no matter how good of folks they are? The very old monks in Tibet, the holiest of Buddhists, as an example - they’re going straight to hell - right? Poor Indians living in the jungles of South America - good people but have no access to books or Christian teachings - just trying to live - their children are friggin going to Hell youre telling me??? “He's a merciful God“ Really? Merciful? Sending non-Christian children to an eternity of fire and damnation? That is merciful to you? Why is it, that with this many people in the world, with a wide variety of religions, with many practicing good, honest loving behaviors, loving their neighbors - GOOD PEOPLE - yet you tell me that they’re gonna burn in Hell for all eternity? Literally 2/3 of the worlds population - because they aren’t of your religion - they’re gonna spend a miserable ETERNITY after what maybe 75 years on earth - but no matter how good they are - none of it even matters because they were raised in different religions - an eternity of misery. Yep. If that isn’t merciful then I don’t know what is. J[/QUOTE]Wouldn't it be more just if instead of an eternity in hell God just made the evil-doers experience the misery that they caused? All the rich folks with ill-gotten wealth could experience the pain and suffering and anxiety of the poor people without healthcare whose children were starving? I can almost imagine a sort of Judgement day, everybody present in some sort of Court, reading off the crimes, until we so realize we are all imperfect and it would become almost comedy. Wow the 7 Billionth person in a row who thought about the opposite sex, it wouldn't even have an impact anymore. You thought about murdering someone, well at least you didn't actually do it like Hitler (laughter). Maybe we would realize how ridiculous we all are, and how we squandered our lives living as slaves when we were supposed to live free. God will say, wow I created this epic virtual reality for you all to enjoy, and you go and enslave each other, blow each other up, steal, lie, break the very few rules I had, made the game miserable when it had the potential to be amazing. Did you all learn anything, dare I let you all try again?
My problem - and it’s a big one is these folks telling me that if I don’t do as they say, that no matter how good I am, no matter what good deeds I do - if I’m not a Christian then I’m going to Hell for an eternity of damnation. They say in their big black book that was supposedly written by the creator of the universe that non virgins should be killed! They say that homosexuals should be killed! They say even though I was designed to look at chicks that if I do I’m sinning & that every sin is bad enough to put me in hell forever? Their bible specifically quotes that slavery is just fine. It discusses incest, murdering children, women, hell even cannabalism - yet when I question any of these things the walls immediately go up and I hear “I already answered you” or as ol @Ronhip said “stop trying to be popular” lol - anything to avoid answering my numerous questions - or as the dude above stated “ I don’t do Bible studies with pagans” - anything at all to beat around the bush. Anything at all to avoid answering questions. I get told “oh dude you’re taking all of this out of context” - You ever notice that when anybody is quoting scripture they only the good stuff, the positive items. Nobody ever quotes the negatives. God is good; God is merciful, The Bible must be followed!! OR - at least the parts they want us to? Slavery is just fine! Rape is A-Ok! Divorce will Get you put in Hell, tho. Women should be silent - and not speak. Kill homosexuals!! UNLESS you’re a priest diddling young boys. Then it’s ok - right? How can all of the killing in the Bible be condoned and you can be told to slay your enemies yet killing is a mortal sin. Friggin on and on - and what pisses me off is when I question it I am refused answers. When I question it I’m told that unless I submit I’m going to hell. Holier than thou attitudes. J
and then you said: Christians or professing Christians...I don't know the number. No. I'm saying that anyone who isn't born again is going to Hell. They don't go to Hell because they aren't Christian, they go to Hell because they've sinned against God and they are sinners. Just like me, just like you. How many times to do I have to say it? Unless they are born again, they will die in their sins and be justly punished. You seem to think that folks are innocent and that God owes them something. They aren't and He doesn't. Those "poor indians" are sinners and they will be justly punished unless they repent and believe just like anyone else. PS: This is why missionaries go to the jungle. All men deserve Hell...you, me, everyone. No..that's justice. He's also a just God to send folks to Hell who deserve it. He's merciful because He's deemed to save some. Infinitely more merciful than any of us deserve. Cry out to Him...he'll save you. Nobody is good. All have sinned. All deserve Hell. So, issue with your underlying premise leads to an issue with your question. See answers above for your errors in that question. I wouldn't expect you to embrace the truth...that's your job as an unbeliever...you hate God and you rebel against anything good. I get that. I was also unsaved. I said the same things, but I also knew that what I'm saying now is right and that God did exist and that I was in trouble....just like you do. Please repent and believe before it's too late. God will save you.
and then you said: Christians or professing Christians...I don't know the number. So if 2/3 of the world is Christian and probably less than half - and more likely a quarter of these “Christians” Will actually end up in your heaven’s and that means maybe 10% of the world will end up in Heaven and 90% will probably end up what you say is Hell. No. I'm saying that anyone who isn't born again is going to Hell. They don't go to Hell because they aren't Christian, they go to Hell because they've sinned against God and they are sinners. Just like me, just like you. So the little 3 year old boy - NO! Let’s say the 2 year old little girl in the Brazilian rainforest is a Sinner - and is going to HELL - Because she isn’t in your religion, right? How many times to do I have to say it? Unless they are born again, they will die in their sins and be justly punished. You seem to think that folks are innocent and that God owes them something. They aren't and He doesn't. Those "poor indians" are sinners and they will be justly punished unless they repent and believe just like anyone else. PS: This is why missionaries go to the jungle. AN ETERNITY OF FIRE AND DAMNATION FOR THOSE POOR SINNING INDIANS!! THEY DESERVE IT!! All men deserve Hell...you, me, everyone. No..that's justice. He's also a just God to send folks to Hell who deserve it. He's merciful because He's deemed to save some. Infinitely more merciful than any of us deserve. Cry out to Him...he'll save you. Nobody is good. All have sinned. All deserve Hell. EVEN THE 2 YEAR OLD LITTLE GIRL - RIGHT? So, issue with your underlying premise leads to an issue with your question. See answers above for your errors in that question. I wouldn't expect you to embrace the truth...that's your job as an unbeliever...you hate God and you rebel against anything good. I rebel against anything good? Who the hell are you to tell me that I rebel against good? How would you even vaguely presume to say this? I get that. I was also unsaved. I said the same things, but I also knew that what I'm saying now is right and that God did exist and that I was in trouble....just like you do. Please repent and believe before it's too late.
I’m very curious as to what makes you really believe that all of this is true? Is it because of the Bible? Is it because of what other men have told you? J
It's because God made me believe that. God is the creator and sustainer of all things including my thoughts and actions. That's the "base level" answer I guess you could say. The other side of the coin is that unless God is presupposed, I can't know anything. God is the necessary precondition for all human experience, knowledge, and reason. None of those things can be justified from a material universe. So I guess the short answer to that is: God exists and caused me to believe because of the impossibility of the contrary. I'll sign off this thread now..I've said what I came to say and as I mentioned earlier, I know that the non-Christians here aren't really seeking to know the truth, they are looking to prop up their unbelief so it's not a matter of not having enough information, you have all of the evidence or information you need, you just don't like the answers. Have a good day and please, repent and believe before it's too late.
No, the problem is believers trying to justify their belief to other people when they are unable to justify it for themselves. I understand everybody has different levels of understanding and different reasons for belief, which is fine, but I would recommend against trying to hope into a debate that you are unwilling or unable to see through. I am open to listening to Christians, I still listen to them frequently, and ones of all stripes. Ravi Zacharias, William Lane Craig, Jay Dyer, Nick Fuentes, Rupert Sheldrake, Michael Ramsden, Allister McGrath, John Lennox, Ken Hamm, Kent Hovind, and others. Don't assume that because someone disagrees with you or challenges you that they are close minded or ignorant. I agree 'God' is the necessary precondition, but that doesn't mean the Bible represents that God, in fact I would argue otherwise, as would the gnostics.
“you have all of the evidence or information you need, you just don't like the answers” Evidence??????? Show me a single piece? Do you want giving me any answers. You’re just telling me that you want giving me any answers. You’re just telling me that God exists and told me so “God exists and told me so”. That’s supposed to be your proof? And now you’re cutting out - you guys ALWAYS cut out when I start questioning you. The last dude told me to “quit trying to be popular” because he didn’t want to answer my questions either lol “ The non-Christians here aren’t really seeking to know the truth” But yet I asked you - and I am waiting for any kind of a real answer but yet as soon as the kitchen gets hot you leave. Why is that? J
I never once hinted to any of these folks that I don’t believe in God yet I keep being told by them that I don’t - even though they don’t know me from Jack - and only because I question them with questions that for some reason they don’t really want to answer. “doesn't mean the Bible represents that God, in fact I would argue otherwise,” Right - in fact, as any of the other world religions - the millions of Hindu, the Buddhists, et al. One of my biggest issues with all of this is being constantly told that unless I drop to my knees then there’s no freaking way I’m getting into their “heaven” - and as a matter of fact, I’m pretty much guaranteed a spot in their eternal hell. Being told that a Hindu holy man, a beautiful innocent young girl or a Buddhist monk is going to hell doesn’t sit right with me. But when I ask about it it’s either “drop to your knees and accept MY God” or “yes, even these people are definitely going to hell - for an eternity of misery”. The next few sentences usually contain something about how loving and Just this God is - Yet the Bible is chock full of hate, murder, rape of innocents & misery. And then they leave. J
When I google “Are all sins equal?” I come up with about a million places that say there are greater and lesser sins - why is that? Dude - you CANNOT Google this - you must go by what the Christian Church says it means - right? Google says all kinds of things. how is it that much of the Bible cannot be taken literally? How do you pick and choose what’s ok and what isn’t if the word is law? Or isn’t it? Who decides? What is OK and what isn’t? If the Bible was created by God are these things OK? Working on Sunday, killing people from other religions, rape, slavery… I mean, the stuff is in the Christian Bible - right??? I want to know how the Bible that is supposedly written by a god that says “don’t do this or it’s a sin - and you’ll spend an eternity in damnation but over and over does it “himself” or tells others to do it in this book. Slavery, rape, murder. I was raised Christian - every darn Sunday spent in a white building. 10+ years perfect attendance. I finally realized I was being scammed like so many others. I don’t need anyone to tell me what is right and wrong and I know how to treat other people. You know what kills me about this whole thing - and again, people, remember I was raised Christian. I actually taught Sunday school for a while. So you’re telling me that 2/3 of the worlds population, or around 5 Billion people are going to hell - for an Eternity of damnation - because they aren’t Christian - no matter how good of folks they are? Why is it, that with this many people in the world, with a wide variety of religions, with many practicing good, honest loving behaviors, loving their neighbors - GOOD PEOPLE - yet you tell me that they’re gonna burn in Hell for all eternity? Friggin on and on - and what pisses me off is when I question it I am refused answers. When I question it I’m told that unless I submit I’m going to hell. I’m very curious as to what makes you really believe that all of this is true? Evidence??????? Show me a single piece? The last dude told me to “quit trying to be popular” because he didn’t want to answer my questions either lol I never once hinted to any of these folks that I don’t believe in God yet I keep being told by them that I don’t Hehehe, you're so obvious your hat might as well be on fire. Can you even read? Are you on some medication that hinders comprehension? If not, then you're just throwing random shit for the sake of popularity. You're googling your questions, then forbid me to use google dictionary to define a single word. You snatch sentences out of context, then not allow anyone to use the context in the explanation you ask for. What a convenient rule. Just what in the HELL were they doing at your church for 10 years? According to you, they made you a teacher, but you can't even answer basic Bible questions. Then they even refused to answer your questions. Are you sure it was a church? Was there any Bible study happening at all? Do you have a Bible? Audio's are available now if reading or comprehension is an issue. Wow! 10 years, and moved into a teaching position, and you don't yet comprehend what it is to be born again. Even Nicodemus "got it". All you've done here is present the Bible and God as bullcrap, and now you're saying you never told anyone you don't believe in God. I gotta say, your game here is looking pretty squirrely. Now, go ahead and make a big reply about how I didn't answer anything.
Nothing says merciful like sending billions of people to burn for eternity eh? If god was truly merciful he wouldn't send innocent people to be tortured for no other reason than not believing in him.
For someone looking for truth and consistency, I didn't find it in Biblical Christianity. Yahweh clearly sounds like a monster, in fact if you replaced "Yahweh" with "Lucifer" it would make a lot more sense, which is kind of what the Gnostics thought. Somewhere along the lines it appears that the script was flipped, which makes it logically impossible to reconcile, unless you flip those back. I seems God would have given Adam the chance to live in a state of ignorant bliss or to open his mind to the whole range of possible emotions/experiences. Perhaps the jealous one is the one who wanted man to remain ignorant and not Godlike.
Well the tricky part is, according to the Bible, we are all born as sinner/in debt/ undeserving/guilty, so they would say no innocents go to hell. It is interesting, as Dr Farrell points on in a few of his books, we have a financial system, physics and religions of indebtedness, and they are connected.
That's a big reason I left Christianity, I cannot fathom the thought of innocent atheists/non-Christians being seen as evil as murderers and rapists by god and being punished the same way. It's insanity (and kind of arrogant regarding people who believe it). I know most Christians aren't like that but the bible still has messed up stuff.
I cannot rationalize it either, and even if I could, I don't think I could justify worshiping such a being. If I could I would be sure I was able to justify it to others before I tried spreading it as truth.
9 pages later the OP hasn't made a 2nd post to the thread or on GC apparently... maybe it was just a "track" i think they call those hand out solicitations... i'm amazed that any of the religions still have followers who actually believe the literal teachings, not just the old testament bible but ALL religions... the latest revelations of the pedophile priests even to the pope covering it up are enough to empty a lot of pews imo... btw , i like this pope Francis, he is the 1st one in my lifetime who acts like a real down to earth rub elbows with the masses kind of guy...