Number 1: Designed things are always less complex then the designer. number 2: If a God or any kind of intelligence designed this universe, that intelligence must be more complex then the universe itself. number 3: The more complex something is the less probability it has of existing. God is therefore more improbable then the universe itself and is so unneccessariy complex that he fails to solve any problems regarding the universe, and just obscures things. Many find it hard to believe that our universe could have come from nothing, but i'm finding it easier and easiear to believe that -much quicker then I am to in believing in an ultra-complex intelligence that was responsible for anything. It is just confounding and obscuring the problem - which itself is a lot simpler then God could possibly be. Just by virtue of his creator position he would have to be more complex then the universe itself or any problems that arise regarding our understanding of it. We currently know that complexity only arises through simplicity, and that everything has simple origins. So to say that there was a ultra-complex intelligence existing, right from the outset, and that this ultra-complex intelligence is the origin of everything, is to say that something more improbable then everything in the universe combined (including the universe itself) exists. So as improbable as you may think any solution to a problem may be (unless that solution consists of more then one god), it is still less improbable then God as the solution. Even the idea of the universe coming from nothing, or the idea of there being more then one universe, is MUCH simpler then the idea that a complex intelligence which has existed forever created everything from nothing. Science, from my understanding of it, has always sought to simplify things; theists have consistently wanted to complify things with the subject of God - complify them to the point that no has any clue what is going on. This makes theism the ultimate form of obscurantism. "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." Thoughts?