have you ever had a debate on the topic of god and changed someone's mind about what they believe in? i have not. never. ever. and i have talked to a fuckload of people about the shit. i'm done with it. there's no point. they have to wanna change their minds to change their beliefs and they can only accomplish that for themselves. so maybe this section would do well if people entirely stopped making threads dedicated to the purpose of debating whether or not god exists. i'm so damn sick of the shit. nobody ever changes their mind. there's the occasional "hey well we can agree on that".. but that's not due to the changing of minds-- but rather the rare beliefs-crossover that can occur between some theists and atheists. i'm so tired of seeing the same arguments over and over again.. with the same people in them.. making the same points.. expecting different results. i think we all know what einstein said about that.
but did it happen on the spot? i have influenced some people to revise their beliefs but they were never willing to do it during the conversation. only afterward when they reflected back and had time to think it over. and then it makes me wonder.. what's the need for debate? there is none. if everybody just explains what they believe and why.. and we all just accept that we believe whatever bullshit we do (obviously depending on a person's perspective, anything can be considered bullshit including atheism.. so i'm not targeting any specific groups here), shouldnt it effectively accomplish the same (or maybe even more) amount of mind-changing as debating should? because like i said in the OP, i firmly believe that you have to want to change your mind. and if you want to change your mind, you'll find what leads you to changing it whether people push it on you or not. you'll search for it because you know that you want to learn something new. to see something you didnt before. to understand something you dont.
Actually, yes. But, of course, this was a close friend and not just a random internet-asshole. In a way but, as ideas clash, they evolve. Yes, we could all just think about our own beliefs superduperhard forever and maybe they'll evolve that way too, but it won't be nearly as efficient (regardless of how it may appear) or fun. Can you play Pokemon solely by training your own Pokemon out in the wild? Yes. Will it eventually become a Charizard? Yes. But, if you battle other trainers it will evolve much quicker, and it'll be more fun to boot. And thattttttttttt's my cue to stop smoking.
I haven't changed anyone's minds but I am friends with theists who openly admit the irrationality of what they believe, but just affirm that they still believe in it because they honestly feel it's true. I've no qualms with those views.
i think my cue to stop smoking was when i made this thread. officially in pacifist mode right now. i guess part of my problem with threads dedicated entirely to debating whether or not god exists is that they pretty much create a hostile environment from the get-go. people visit the thread ready for verbal warfare. lol it's all good and fun to challenge what other people believe.. but somehow it almost always turns into personal attacks and shit.... normally when someone asks a question or points out a weakness in what someone else said, and then the poster doesnt want to acknowledge the weakness so they either get defensive or use some logical fallacy to back out of the discussion or to shift it somewhere else. i guess the problem really lies within the constructiveness of most of the discussion.
Yeah, but what on the internet doesn't always turn into personal attacks and shit? I thought we could all at least get along when it comes to porn, but now that they're adding comment sections to some of those sites, I'm seeing that even this is not true lmao. I don't that the problem is so much religious debate as it is internet debate....or maybe even just internet interaction in general...
Yea it's pretty pointless. People will believe what they want. I was thinking the same thing last night when I saw a commercial on drinking. It showed a girl stumbling to the bathroom vomiting. Then said something like, "You aren't the only thing getting wasted" and showed her life in the toilet. I was like WTF. This isn't gonna pursuade someone who drinks. It's just one side against the other, like 1st graders going, Person A: You're stupid. Person B: No, you're stupid. Person A: No, you're stupid. Person B: No, you're stupid. Person A: No, you're stupid. Person B: Well, you're stupider. Person A: No, you're stupider. This goes on until..................well..............until both sides die. Then someone else steps up. That's why. I say. fuck it. Word to Chappelle's show
From 1 Corinthians in The Bible,20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. What its teaching is that for someone to be open to learning from you, they first have to feel a common ground with you, or else you are just a stranger
I dont get into any of those discussions to try to change anyone's viewpoint anymore, but rather to share my own. In the past those discussions have only solidified and strengthened my point of view. We all come at it from the individual POV, imo. People dont generally click on one of those threads expecting to change theirs, although some might be searching for what makes sense...like I was when I first got interested in thinking about things of that nature more than I had. The internet has greatly enriched that whole experience of delving into where your thoughts take you and learning for yourself. In that respect, the discussions can be very good.... ..Just dont go into it expecting to change somebody's mind...only add on to your own..
When I was posting on here more I talked about basically this...lol...it's so pointless and unproductive.
I actually have convinced several of my friends away from faith based spirituality and blind faith, especially christianity.
There's no point in trying to convert somebody...most religious people have believed in whatever religion they believe in since birth. Just gotta let them figure it out on their own.
Once upon a time, on another forum I frequent, after many months and many discussions I finally went from being a Christian to being an atheist. That was a scary time in my life...because I thought that I would NEVER lose my faith. Just informing you that some people's minds can be changed.
the debates on here are logical(sometimes) up to a certain point, then become repetitive, illogical, and unconstructive, at which point people turn to belittling each other for thinking differently. that's really what i'm referring to-- is that. if logical discussion could actually be maintained i'd have no qualms with the trend of such threads.
i think if you search the same sub-board on a message board day after day, overtime it definitely can seem repetitive. trust me, i've been on and off this board for almost 6 years now. by illogical do you mean people's opinions you don't agree with? in that case it's certainly deconstructive. GC is huge, worldwide- you're going to see a wide variety of passionate discussions and ideas here. just keep the ad hominems out while avoiding basic logical fallacies and we should be good.
once again.. it's not debate that i have an issue with. if the debate that goes on in this forum actually took place in an academic setting, i'm guessing about 95+% of the participants would be disqualified. lol