I learned how to grow in soil and I'm still there. I know the Fox Farms line well as I chose 1 line from the beginning and stuck to it as to have a steady "control" to learn with. My question is this.... Would it be possible to use some (as much as possible) of the FF nutes and supplement whatever u folks suggest for whatever the non organic elements are? I'm told that it's basically the grow big and the tiger bloom that are non organic. If this is true, can those 2 be switched for something just as proven that is organic to get my grow a bit closer to being organic?
LBH You could use FF's Peace of Mind dry organic fertilizers with Big Bllom and you would be able to stay with FF and grow some killer bud. I'm guessing you use FFOF for soil so I'll lay out how I would approach an all organic FF grow, and maybe it's something you could try. I would grow my clones/seedlings in straight FFOF in 6" pots until well rooted. I would then transplant up to a 2-3 gallon pot with FFOF amended with FFPoM Tomato and Vegetable fertilizer and veg until about 2 weeks prior to flipping to 12/12. I would then up pot again into 5-7 gallon pots with FFOF that has been amended with FFPoM Fruit and Flower dry fertilizer. This would layer the two fertilizers as you transplanted up, and give the plant both veg and flower nutes to draw from. These dry fertilizers come with 20+ beneficial microbes and will help establish a vibrant "micro herd" in your root zone. Once a microbe colony is established, they will deliver the nutrients as the plant needs them. The only thing I would do that involves something other than FF products, is to add some mycorrhizae to the FFOF right at planting time. It is important to get these spore into the root zone as early as possible. The mycorrhizae will form a relationship with the roots early on, and I don't know if FFOF has it included in their soil. You can order myco products online, or find them at your local nursery/garden center, The worm castings in the soil will contribute beneficial bacteria from the get go, but mycorrhizae, IMO, is the single most important thing to get to the roots from the start. Then, water in with an aerated worm tea to further boost the microbe activity. Once the microbes start working with the dry fertilizers, you can basically water throughout the grow with an occasional application of tea and/or a watering with Big Bloom. I also use molasses, but WAY sparingly. I use it in my AACTs to feed the microbes, and a couple of times only during the last 3 weeks before harvest. I've basically laid out the same regimen I use only substituting FF dry fertilizers for the Dr. Earth line that I use. The Peace of Mind dry ferts are inexpensive, maybe try it out on a couple of plants side by side with your regular program. Whatever you choose to do, you'll get hooked on organic gardening quick. Take care bro, chunk
The Happy frog has the "micro", I think, that's what I used for cloning the other day, put the cuttings right in it (no rooting compond), they are looking real good. I am on my second grow, I used a soil called Farmer's Choice Organic, has all kinds of nice stuff in it, it's somewhat inexpensive, like $7 a 2.5cu.ft. bag, I added "Dr. Earth" Organic dry ferts (bone meal, bat guano, bud & bloom enhancer), very loosely to what the box recommended, into 5 gal. buckets. I water with rain water, which I mix in molasses with every now and again. I did the same on my first grow and it came out pretty darn good, I have pics on here somewhere, this grow should be better because I have a new bulb (1000wMH). The second grow pics are coming, I have fan leaves as big as my hand(and I got big hands). Next grow I think I will use the same soil I use now, but add some of the Happy Frog to it for the "micros".
in the alternative garden supply mag i'm looking at right now it says that grow big is an organic-based liquid plant food(blood meal, earthworm castings, and norwegian kelp). big bloom is made with premium earthworm castings and bat guano. tiger bloom is the only one that doesnt say organic. this is what i use havent used tiger bloom yet, but FF has worked well so i might give them a try. just picked up some indonesian bat guano (0-13-0) well see how that works!
I am just about to start growing! I am getting FFOF, and i am not 100% sure what nutes i am getting for the Vegetative stage? -Any Ideas? and once i get there, i want to use Tiger Bloom nutrients for flowering (about 2tsp/gal/week) and so how much molasses should I add to the to the irrigation water and how offten? also any other fundamental/advanced tips that anyone has to share before I start this long, but amazing process... i am new to the forums.
I use FFOF, and it works great. Throw some rocks on the bottom for drainage. I stick by all fox farm products, so i use grow big for veg, tiger bloom for flowering, also i give it a shot of indonesian bat gunoa. For the tiger bloom you should start with half strength just to make sure the plant can handle it. After a week or 2, you can go to full strength. The feeding schedule i use is water/water/nutes/nutes/water/water... That way you flush all the nutes the plant doesnt use. The molasses i go with 2tsp per gallon. I use a food molasses in its rawest form. Thick and as dark as i can find. I use it in the flush so i follow the same schedule as the nutes, just makes it easier to remember
i think fox farms products are great, and i havent even started my first grow yet, ima use nothing but fox farm products, nothing else, does this sound like something good?
I'm just going to pump the brakes here for a second. Being a somewhat experienced, but still humble and learning organic Cannabis grower, I would have to say this. Do not use any fox farm products. Ever. When several new organic growers pop up and ask questions about using FF products, I think it's the duty of the community to explain why this isn't the best idea, and what the alternatives are. Grow big, Tiger bloom, Cha ching, open sesame, and beastie blooms are NOT organic. Sure, some are organic 'based' , whatever the hell that means. If you are set on buying soil, and liquid nutes, I would recommend getting one of the Sun Gro 'sunshine mixes' or the Sunshine Grower's Natural & Organic. For liquid nutes, I would recommend organic gem, Neptunes harvest, or even earth juice or biobizz. But after spending a bunch of money on these, you will soon realize from reading on here and other organic forums that you could have made a higher quality option from home, and saved a lot of money. There are many soil and 'nutrient' recipes online that have been tested and work perfectly. This is all IMHO. peace.
fox farm products are fine and compared to some alternatives that many a new grower end up using, ie miracle grow, they will give you decent results. as long as people are aware that only their soils, big bloom, and some of their dry ferts are their only "all" organic products i don't see a major problem with ff. as chunkdaddyo has so kindly explained, amending happy frog or o.f. with the peace of mind line and feeding big bloom throughout should give even a novice above average results. all that being said, the ultimate goal of any good organic grower should be to NOT ONLY create and mix their own killer soil for less cash than you would spend in the local hydro shop BUT to get better results with it too. i mean if you're spending the time and energy making your own pre-amended organic soil in order to save $10 or $20 and you end up with a smaller harvest than usual, what's it all really for? call me crazy but if i didn't know what i was doing, i'd much rather(and did) pay a couple extra bucks to have someone else do all the runaround, work, and research for me. that way i could concentrate on learning about how cannabis grows, what it likes and doesn't like, etc etc. all the things that a beginning grower should be learning about. don't get me wrong, i feel that it's very important for an organic gardener to learn all about healthy soils and how to build and maintain them but you've gotta walk before you can run and a new grower could do much much worse than fox farm.
whenever anybody bashes fox farms' products... i show them this... http://forum.grasscity.com/outdoor-grow-journals/435398-outdoor-2009-monster-plants.html yes, the grow big and tiger bloom are organic 'based', but have time release ferts mixed in... now trust me, i love organic things, i really do... everything i use in my grow is organic besides the promix due to a wetting agent... but you just, can't argue with THOSE results... given every plant grown with fox farms products doesn't grow into a 15 foot monster, but that certainly shows the potential in using them... that being said, i'm sure you could substitute products for the non-organic elements of the Fox Farms line... i just wouldn't know what to recommend... i personally use an all-organic Earth Juice based nute schedule (check my sig if you like) and have had great results in the past... i just don't know where to fit my nute schedule into the fox farms line, cause i've never used it... i'll still recommend it to anybody that asks cause of that link though haha
I would have to strongly agree with Bohdi on this statement. Foxfarm is NOT organic and is NOT very well made. I have seen their products, both the soil, and the liquid, cause nutrient lock out and all sorts of other problems with plants. They tend to not be very pH balanced and have a lot of excess salts resulting in unhealthily high EC in the plants from what I have seen. There are a number of other truly organic products out there that work better than Fox Farm and won't cause your plants to have issues. I used their line the first two years I was growing. I switched and never looked back - my yield, quality, growth rate, and general health of the plant was far superior using other ferts and soil. Many of their products are quite expensive IMO, especially their bagged soils. Like Bohdi was saying if you do a little research there are alternatives out there that not only work better - they will cost you a lot less money as well. Just my two cents.
Well, actually, yeah I can argue with that. Look at how tiny the buds are at the end of the season compared to the size of the plant. On many of the top colas, even in mid Oct, you can see big chunks of stem showing through. Not trying to knock the guy who grew them or anything but I can see the exact problems I mentioned in those pictures. For a plant that size, the finished colas could have been at least 2-3 times larger and a LOT more filled out. The plants themselves may be fairly large, but this is not an indicator of yield, and there is a lot less on those plants that it looks like. This was pretty much my experience with FF products. The plants get decent sized, but when the buds start to form, FF fails big time. The buds never get that big or that dense, resulting in a serious lack of yield.
lack of yield??? dude... there's pounds upon pounds hanging from the ceiling... you ever seen bigger plants than that? if so, i'd like to see pics... look at the sunflower... lol it's like 2 feet wide...
yea but im sure you know that that could have everything or nothing to do with what they've been fed. genetics, genetics, genetics...if a plant isn't genetically capable of growing big fat buds, it's not going to matter how good it's food is.
blaze im curious as to how an organic, ph balanced with oyster shells fox farms soil was able to cause nute lockout in a plant. i've never seen anything like that from any of their soils but i personally dont use their liquid nute line other than big bloom from time to time. i am a big believer in "user error" though, and people looking to blame their own problems on something else. i'll use myself as an example, when i go golfing and screw a shot into the woods, who do i blame? myself? ha! no waaaay my friend, it's the club, the grips, the sun in my eyes, the bird chirping during my backswing... et al. basically i'm looking to shift the blame away from the cause of it, my horrible swing! i see and hear it with growers all the time, " don't use that soil it'll kill your plants" really???!!! i've learned over time to take statements like that with a huge grain of salt... im not sure where you guys are located but here in san diego i can go to walter andersons nursery and get a 1.5 cf bag of ffof for $13 or a 2.5 cf bag of happy frog for $14. that's not expensive at all and i'm a poor college student. as i've said before there are faaaaar better bagged organic soils available if making your own is not an option, but new learning growers could and often do far worse than a bag of fox farm soil and some good organic food. i actually don't use their soils anymore though i do grab a bag of light warrior from time to time, but i never had or saw any problems with them.
anyobne recommend something else i can easily find at walmart since i live 30 mins from my closes walmart/grocery store
I can't tell you exactly why but I have seen it happen many times now. Their quality is not consistent and sometimes they seem to produce a bad batch. It can happen with any soil company, but it seems to happen a lot more with FF. Sap meters don't lie - I've seen the numbers, and the uptake with fox farm product are just never that good. The pH always seems to get very high as does the EC resulting in lock out. I can buy a yard of Grab N' Grow's OMRI listed organic Mango Mulch Compost or their Organic Garden Mix where I am at for $45 a yard. That works out to be $1.66 per cubic foot, one third the cost of FFOF. Their manure free Tango Mulch compost is $32 a yard, or $1.19 per cubic foot, which is less than one quarter what FFOF costs.
Actually, if you look at that thread, someone posted up some pics of plants grown by a dude who goes by Butte on some of the other sites. His plants are gigantic - biggest organic plants I've ever seen and he does it all with tea's and to-dressing.