First Solo Grow, Whats Wrong Here?

Discussion in 'Sick Plants and Problems' started by laowai27, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. What type of medium: soil
    What brand and type of soil: no clue, and it's "for flowering"
    Indoors or outdoors: Indoors
    What strain: bagseed from Vietnam
    How old are the plants: approx 12 weeks
    What type of lights and how many watts: LED red/blue plant lights, forget the watts + lots of natural sunlight
    How far from the lights: not close.
    What is your watering frequency and source of water: varies, lately due to possible overwatering I have been waiting several days between waterings. Source of water is delivered drinking water. Used tap water when it was young (and it looked great)
    What, how much and when was it fed? fed generic fertilizer since maybe 4 weeks ago, every 3rd day, possibly too much.
    What is the medium/runoff pH and PPM if in hydro? untested as of now.
    What are the temps and humidity in the room? varies. room has a window. it's currently mid 70's, can reach as high as mid 80's
    What size pots? unsure how to say, but quite huge. they are tubs I had to self drill drain holes (which I recently made bigger since I suspect overwatering)
    Any bugs? Look real close. - no, I don't think so, I have a fan on them constantly, so no flying bugs likely, and I can not see any bugs on or under the leaves or stems. Though I have seen some fruit flies in our apartment.
    Any other pertinent info? I am currently in China so there is a language barrier as in I can't know what's in the soil basically, or etc. 

    I'm going to purchase a dehumidifier, and I have some phosphate nutes being shipped now. Likely will get an electronic pH tester. I've got strips currently. 

    The plants have been on 12/12 for a week, also. I know they might be a bit young, but, yeah. Should I stop that and give 24/0 light until the leaves get better? Or would that mess them up and potentially turn hermaphrodite? But, there have been some tiny light leaks (I had to block a window with black trash bags and tape) which I recently mostly fixed, but there's no artificial light coming in, it would only be faint natural light of sunset and sunrise maybe equivalent to starlight - but the plants show no sign of flowering as far as I can tell (maybe you can tell differently from the photos)

    What should I do? I recently poured lots of water to test my drainage so I'm holding off on everything for now until the soil dries out again. Today and yesterday were cloudy so that will be slow (the room has an open air window with a screen for airflow and natural light) (because I only have one bulb)

    I have photos from this plant's entire history if that would be helpful I can upload that.
    This might be too long already so without further ado, I'll attach photos.
    Thanks in advance, and I tried to read as much FAQ and self-diagnose as much as possible. Hope this n00b isn't too bothersome. 
    20130610_132018.jpg 20130610_131958.jpg 20130610_131939.jpg 20130610_131909.jpg 20130610_131812.jpg 20130610_131807.jpg 20130610_131800.jpg 20130610_131731.jpg

  2. Your plants are expressing an Fe and Mn deficit. Lower ph run-off to 6.5 for correction.
  3. Just some minor observations, I'd paint the pots black to reduce any chance of light getting to the roots, and you can never have enough drainage holes, the big issue here is the soil, you really got to KNOW the type of soil and the volume, next grow, buy soil in bags that is used by the locals to grow tomatoes, if you can mix in 30%-60% perlite, or vermiculite to reduce compaction(soil crushing roots), the volume of soil gives you the grower a very good indication of how big they will grow and how you will deal with this tree?
    I work on the formula of 9 plants under 1x 600w hps, for 3 months, in 3 gallon pots, to 3 feet high or 9 plants under 1x 600 hps for 15 weeks in 15 liter pots to 1 meter high ....something like that?
    Any visible light leaks into your grow room is a potential threat to herming your plants, so block out any light leaks with paint, tape, whatever you have.
    The plants you have selected to grow are so overwhelmingly indica strain, I be very surprised if they were native to Vietnam, they are very sativa strains in the d' nam, and can be difficult to grow, being on the tropics, but your plants are stretched, like to much RED light that encourages vertical growth, give your plants as much natural light as you can, and if possible add a lot of blue light to offer your plants the ability to grow horizontal forget the LED light, they just don't have enough light, your plants need Blue (6500 kelvin) light
    from 400w Meta Halide or several 23w CFL's.
    as you have just entered bud, be warned any issues or bad moves on your part will start to show on your plants now, good luck
  4. Will paint the pots black, I didn't even think about that! I will also add more drainage holes. When I first grew them in the smaller pots, I was using "flower" soil as I thought that matched what the plant's function is better than "vegetable" soil. They did good. 

    I wonder if some of it is soil compaction. I didn't read that anywhere! Should I dig it up carefully and add perlite/vermiculite to the soil? Or it's too late for now?
    Okay, I will try to get another light, a blue one. 
    Should I try to clone it?
  5. thanks for your reply. what natural things can I add to the water to lower the pH?
  6. White Vinegar, and some have used lemon juice, but your best bet would be to purchase commercial ph down, correction is better with the ph down.
  7. Ph is probably not a problem , in soil its not very common to get a serious lockout from ph problems , its a bit of a myth , a lot like people who say their 4 week old plants are root bound in a 6l pot, which is just not possible you can grow huge 6 month old plants in relatively small pots . I would say just feed them more and give them more light . However you could b completely failing in which case yes you may have a ph problem, or if your soil was horrific from the start
    Ph is a problem. I've seen extremely distressed plants expressing severe deficits in soil on this forum. When ph is skewed, along with heavy-handed fertilization, ph problems lead to lock-out in most cases... it's not a myth. If you feed them more, your plants will further express iron deficiency, not what you want. Ph run-off should FIRST be corrected, When you have pH imbalance, it can make iron insoluble.
  9. pH is a scale that chemists use to measure acidity. Values below 7 are considered acidic, values above 7 are alkaline ( the opposite of acidic) and 7 is neutral.
    Most plants can tolerate a wide pH range in solution culture, but they cannot tolerate a wide range of acidity in the soil.
    When soil acidity changes, the solubility of a number of metal ions also change. Plant growth is really affected by the varying concentration of these metals in solution rather than by the acidity itself.
    Under acidic conditions, many soil minerals dissolve and increase the concentration of metal ions to toxic levels. The primary toxic metal is aluminum, but high levels of manganese and iron can also inhibit plant growth under these conditions. The nutrients phosphorus and molybdenum are less available in acidic soils and calcium and/or magnesium may also be deficient.
    Under alkaline conditions, the solubility of minerals decrease to the point that nutrient deficiencies occur. Plant growth is therefore limited by deficiencies in iron, manganese, zinc, copper and boron. Phosphorus is also less available in alkaline soils and high levels of calcium may inhibit the uptake of potassium and magnesium.
    The aim in managing soil pH is not to achieve a particular pH value, but to adjust the acidity to the point where there are no toxic metals in solution and the availability of nutrients is at its maximum. This condition is usually achieved when the soil pH is between 5.8 and 6.5, however some plants have special acidity requirements.
    Limestone is used to treat acidic soils, but the soil pH value alone does not indicate the amount needed. An exchangeable acidity analysis must also be done to determine the amount of limestone required, and the soil calcium and magnesium levels must be analyzed to determine which type of limestone (dolomitic or calcitic) is required.
    Some alkaline soils can be acidified using sulfur or acid forming fertilizers, but soils with free calcium carbonate cannot be easily acidified. It is often easier to manage the nutrient deficiencies that occur on alkaline soils than to acidify the soil.
  10. I know it could be a problem but I feel people are often too quick to just say its the ph that the problem , I can understand if your growing hydro but it is a lot less common in soil . I haven't actually read the whole post I just looked at the pictures so maybe I'm being a retard. I've used many different soils and nutrient combinations etc and and never had a ph problem , I check my run off once just before I switch 12 12 every time and its always between 5.5 and 6.5. However I tried hydro for my first ever grow and plants died from low ph, then high ph after correcting it . So that's my reasoning for thinking people should chill with the whole ph in soil thing .
  11. Depends on the strain and soil composition. I've got one Holy Grail and and 4 White Widow beginning to express iron right now at a ph of 7, which, I will agree is a not a major concern... all the others (Critical, THC Bomb), have 6.5 at the root zone. I find that folks mostly get ph high by using alkaline water that they don't properly ph. In theory I will agree with you... for the most part a lower ph that's skewed is the result of over fertilization but if growers would properly ph their water then they wouldn't wind up here wondering why their plants are expressing deficiencies.
  12. GENTLEMEN: For this reason I have NO problem advising our problematic planters to FLUSH there plants with 3 times the volume of the pot, (again for the 20th time this week) with Ph neutral water and at current air temperature, this is to do exactly as any Ph Down or Up will do and neutralize any Ph imbalance in the root zone, Smithy is correct, in that it is almost impossible for a grower to get a correct Ph reading in soil as the soil itself acts as a buffer between the nute and the root itself, thus several right and wrong reasons can occur at once 
  13. lemon juice would be pH up or down?

    as I am in China, it's a bit difficult to look for things like that, lots of trial and error with Google Translate. But I'll try...
  14. I used some strips to test the runoff, seems to be around the 7 mark, water seems to be around 6, I guess I should get an electronic meter.

    Just flushed it after letting the soil air out for 4~ days. Hoping for signs of improvement. One or two new growth fan leaves on one plant turned toward the sun quickly, so I'm hoping that's a good sign. 
    Blocked out the window better, and I guess I might need another light... Lighting is a problem for me, need to invest in something to hold up the lights (can't drill into the ceiling or walls...)
    Toke on, my friends.
  15. Sorry for the long delay guys. Life happens. Well, I'm back with some more photos. The problem doesn't seem to be getting better... but the new growth looks fine... and it's been over 20 days in flowering and I don't think it's showing any signs (you be the judge) this must mean there is a light leak somewhere still? Or will plants not flower if they are stressed or have problems as this one clearly does?

    Should I cut my losses and try to clone these plants and focus on those instead? I want these babies to live!
    I'm also worried if they have enough light...

    Attached Files:

  16. you have a nitrogen overdose it causes the leaves to turn in on them selves. you  flushed not much you can do for it now litfa and water only for a while the leaves will not get any better look at the new grow to make sure you are doing things correctly good luck  :hello:

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