I have been growing since 1989 but have always run bottles. This is my first time running organics. Recipe is from my boss who was a long time organic grower. I am a gardener at a commercial cannabis grow. It looks like a PH issue but being so new to organics I was told not to PH my tea after bubbling because it may kill my microbes. This is my issue I am good at plant diagnostics but unclear on best practices to fix it organically. It could also be over watering because I am still getting use to making teas 48 hours prior to watering. 50/50 mix Fox Farms and Botanicare Ready grow aeration coco Bat Guano, Sea Bird Guano, kelp meal, worm castings and molasses bubbled for 48 hours temps are 80 degrees RH 45-70 3 315 CMH and will add another for flower in an 8ft tent. Any advice would be appreciated.
Advice would be to - and I’m totally and completely dead serious - Did I mention I was serious? With all due respect for your friend/mentor, you need to ditch that recipe and do a touch of reading here in the organics forum and build yourself an organic soil based on high quality compost/worm castings and include your soil amendments directly into your well draining soil mix - and ditch the bags from the grow store. You wont need teas, either. And welcome to GCO. j
I’m sorry for that. I dont want you thinking that this is what organic gardening is, though. It almost seems like youre trying to use bagged grow store soil and supplement it with nutrient teas - An honest to goodness organic soil will be totally based on good quality compost. Many folks will mix it with Sphagnum peat, an aeration amendment, worm castings and a variety of soil amendments. The microbes; the bacteria and fungus which originate in the compost will break down the soil amendments into usable plant food. This method will only require plain ol water To keep things moist. The issue I see right away is the lack of good viable compost and by default - bacteria and fungus to break the organic amendments etc into usable plant food. Wish I could be of more help - but stick around and do some reading. Theres good folks here ready to help. peace j
I read Teeming with Microbes and have the basic understanding of organics, microbes and exudates. I have read a decent amount but over the last 30 years of growing I have found that nothing compares to research with hands on experience. At this point I have no hands on experience with organics. I always intended to stray away from that original formula but I wanted to get some jumping off point.
http://franklin.cce.cornell.edu/resources/soil-organic-matter-fact-sheet here’s a good read on organics
Thanks it's a good basic read on organics. Have you read Teeming with Microbes by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis. It's very informative.
There’s a couple issues with using the readygro coir. First off it’s coco coir! Right off the bat, adding it makes your grow non-organic. Calcium nitrate is added as well as “proprietary trace elements”. They add this because coir has a decent CEC but it’s largely dominated by Na and K. It contains very little Ca and Mg. One would have to choose how to add Ca and Mg carefully because they are usually associated with liming agents, which coir doesn’t need because of its near perfect pH. This would also negate the need to add anything high in K such as kelp meal. Since this grow is not organic and has already been contaminated with salts I would go ahead and finish this grow with chemical fertilizers. If you are looking for a really simple bagged product grow to get your feet wet, here’s my suggestion. I use this as my veg mix fresh every cycle, but have flowered in it without issues. (5) 1.5cf bags of Roots Organic soil (1) 1.5cf bag of compost 1.5cf of pine bark mulch or soil pep, the smaller the better and ideally decomposing already. Here’s some lil ones that were flowered in this mix. Or try the ole Coots mix. RD
Thank you didn't think about the amendments in the coir. Yes I know about the cation issue with CalMag but it appears to not be an issue maybe due to the seabird guano. Not sure but it's not showing typical CalMag def. I started down the tea road I think i'll finish it that way just to see how it turns out but definitely next run I will fix that mistake. Appreciate the reply and advice. I want to give organics a solid 3-4 turns to see if that is the road i'll be taking.
The lack of Ca and Mg in coir has been taken care of by the manufacturer. This has been done with chemical fertilizers. You are correct this is not a Ca/Mg issue. The real issue is that you are mixing synthetic chemical growing and organic methods. Please allow me to repeat this. Your current grow is not organic. The buffered coir has damaged the micro life in your soil. You can add organic nutrients till the cows come home but it won’t be of any use because you have damaged your mix with chemical salts. This is why you should just keep using them. RD
Alright I love learning so when I read your post I wanted to see what was in the my coco and besides the the calcium nitrate most of what is in it is organic. I also wanted to find out the effects of salts on microbial biomass to see what kind of damage I am doing to my microbes and what I found wasn't what I expected. Quick Google search and the first 2 things point to salts not harming the microbial biomass at all. Yes I was surprised to read that since even Teeming with Microbes and many other sources have said that salts kill microbial life. If I am missing something or you have an article or paper that refutes this I would love to read it. Here are the links. Just so you know I really did want to see how and to what extent the salts damaged my microbes this was my search (calcium nitrate fertilizer kill my microorganisms) and the first 2 results are these links below. Does Fertilizer Kill Soil Bacteria? - Garden Myths http://www-sf.ucdavis.edu/files/275520.pdf
I've always found the claim that "fertilizers kill soil microbes" rather illogical, given that they feed on/utilize the same ions that plants do. Plants don't differentiate between nutrient ions provided by chem' fert's and those provided by microbial degradation. Why would microbes? It's easy feeding for them. They're already in a usable form... I do think, in a round about way, that there is something to it. If particular forms of soluble nutrients are regularly applied to the soil, the plant doesn't need to expend the energy producing root exudates to feed/stimulate/signal the particular microbial species responsible for cycling the nutrients being provided with soluble fertilizers. In that scenario, I can see microbial reduction of species specific populations.
That makes a lot of sense that the plant may change the way it produces exudates but I would like to see the science on that. I just believe that nothing is cut and dry and that growing techniques can vary and results can vary based on experience and research. I do not tell people they are growing wrong because over the past 3 decades I have seen great results from all types of cannabis growing techniques. Just a disclaimer I have really only grown cannabis but plant growing in general have the same basic characteristics. Organic purists do not like salt based ferts because they are not organic and that's ok but I am a results driven person and with that I want to maximize plant potential and in the end if that is a mixture of organics and salts so be it. I am a small home grow my environmental impact from salt ferts is minuscule. There is no ocean or water being contaminated by choice of ferts. I will grow starting next run 100% organic for at least 3 runs and evaluate what is best for me. What I have been finding is PH plays a more significant role in microbial biomass than the salt based ferts but over time the salt based ferts seem to lower PH which will negatively effect microbial life. I am thankful for all comments because it sets me on the journey to research and find my own way.
By all means I invite debate and conversation. I can be wrong about anything at anytime. Lol. Here’s another study that pertains to the conversation. “All inorganic N forms applied to the soils decreased microbial respiration rates, with the magnitude of the decrease varying across the soil types but not across the N forms.” http://fiererlab.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Ramirez_etal_2010_SBB.pdf Quite honestly you can find information supporting either side of the argument. I was kinda surprised by this. Good on you for checking it out. Let us know how it works out for ya. I might consider leaching your soil and topdressing VC, SST, aloe, fulvic, compost teas, etc., basically the entire bag of organic tricks if do want to run this organically till the end. Transplanting into the largest container possible would be an excellent way to go as well. Good luck. RD
Thank you for the reply and the recommendations. I will read the article and take in all I can from both sides and determine what is best for me and my growing experience. I am not trying to argue in favor of either side but trying to expand my knowledge and be the best grower I can. It is my passion and it brings peace in life. I have been growing off and on since 1989. Now that I am finally free to stop hiding it and have open discussions without fear of loosing my freedom it has brought 2 worlds together. Pre-medical days it was essential that I not talk about or tell anyone what I was doing for fear of incarceration. It was like living 2 lives but now I am working at a commercial cannabis grow as a gardener and have my home grow it really has changed my life. I was a banker for many years in a suit and tie moving other peoples money and making a great living but not really living. Since I ditched the suit and tie my life has been fulfilling and work is no longer just to pay the the bills. I make half of what I did as a banker but happiness is a more a commodity as I am nearing the half century mark. I will post results here as well as in my journal.
I read the article and it is interesting but what I read is that N in large amounts will effect microbial biomass especially if it is chemical N. That would make sense since the availability of chemical N is so much higher. The organic N is more slowly released and digested by the microbes. I could see that being a problem but if N in general is balanced it may not pose a threat to microbes. Very interesting and informative! Thanks for the link.
New growth looks better and has a nice healthy color. Since I am not fully organic I did have to add some Calmag from a bottle but it's True and claims it's organic. I am like an alcoholic can't get away from the bottle. Next run I will ditch the coco. I also only diluted my tea to 75% and let it dry out between waters. I will alternate tea and plain water from here.
End of week 2 and the color is good and plant health appears on point. I don't see any def or slowed growth but it's early flower so the real test will be bulk stage week 5 and 6.
Sorry I must have missed your post. I always wondered about that too but was told for decades that chem ferts will kill my microbes but I have always wondered why people would get root rot when using chem ferts? Yes root rot is anaerobic bacteria but still bacteria. The exudates theory sounds logical. In all fairness the article did say that chem ferts tend to lower PH over time and low PH can damage the microbial biomass but that is a PH issue. See post above this one for a pic it's looking good so far. I also wondered why people say your not growing organically correctly? If all my inputs are organic then aren't I growing organic? I have seen lots of grows in my days and results speak for themselves so I tend to not tell people they are growing wrong if they produce results. That being said results that aren't harmful to the user like bad pesticides and such. I don't care how much yield, THC % or terpene profile you get if it's covered in Eagle 20.