You know whats stupid, woman get cheap car insurance, but their driving is horrible and they do get in accidents more then men. It's bullshit.
I hate to repeat stuff stated above, but I don't know how well I can avoid it in this post, so please forgive me. Women aren't treated well in society, I won't bother to argue against that. But pretending that this is visited on women only demeans the issue, distracts focus from solving the problem, and makes it not only socially acceptable but the norm for huge segments of the same problem to pass by unnoticed. Lots of girls try hard to get into guys' pants too. Not as common (maybe), but people tend not to mention it because they claim that guys just like it. While sex is nice, sometimes we like to be taken seriously in conversations too. Women rate men all the time, attractive and otherwise. I sat with my girlfriend and her roommate, along with her roommate's boyfriend, the other day while they talked about how hot an actor on the tv show we were watching is. In front of both of their boyfriends. Had we done that about some woman on tv, you can bet we'd have a full-on sexism rant directed at us, no questions asked. And I never hear anyone mention male body issues, funnily enough. Again, maybe not as widespread as issues with girls, but it's not like there aren't male bulimics and anorexics out there. Or obsessive bodybuilders, steroid-abusers, and the like. Someone above mentioned the oft-quoted Barbie dimensions on a real person, and how unrealistic they are, but how realistic do you think a G.I. Joe would be in real life? I can't recall the exact figures right now, but they're not healthily proportioned either. Yeah, women are held to unreasonable standards from girlhood on, and suffer serious consequences of those images, are picked on, belittled, etc. And it's terrible. But I don't see how it's any more terrible than a nerdy boy who gets picked on every day, and is bombarded by media images that tell him he's not good enough. The female side is a human atrocity, but it's a subset of a much larger problem. To focus exclusively on the female side is inherently unequal, an advocacy for a specific group over others facing the same circumstances.
It happens on both sides of the spectrum, though personally I think on the female side more. I see guys obsessed with nothing more then their next blowjob, I see hot women getting preferential treatment. It all depends on the circumstances.
A lot of guys are douche bags, and a lot of girls are bitches. Doesn't mean they all are. I've seen hot chicks drag around a treat guys like nothing more than a pile of shit. I've seen guys do the same thing.
Wow. I have read a lot responses to this thread about how men are also put down in society, or how women need to stop complaining or how men are innocent b/c they are "naturally" going to check out women and think about sex. Bullshit. Why is it that whenever women make the tiniest protest against sexism they are "bitching" or "complaining?" . Or that men are given free passes to impose and intrude upon a woman's comfort zone because "he's a man" and it's "natural" that they "appreciate physical things"? These are just a few of the covert methods used to undermine the female opinion/opposition. We're all "just whining" or "on the rag"; we should "understand how men feel" and blah blah blah. All have these things have been said before, and they don't sound any smarter now. That whole "natural" argument is weak as hell to; there is no way you can't not keep yourself from sexually harrassing someone (and yes, "just looking" may constitute as harassment). Of course, women play their part against other women as well, but that's still because many are trying to break through that "glass ceiling" and patriarchy has it set up so that the only way to "win" ,is to step on the heads of other women. It's a rat race designed to keep women under and it's been used on other minorities to. I forgot who mentioned it, but sexism has been doing damage for a long time, so it's not as easy as women just "changing shit". much love, Stonerbella
In other contexts, being unable to restrain oneself from doing something wrong is called insanity. It is, however, perfectly alright in this context. Thank God for double standards!
This and title IX in sports. If a high school girl is decent at a varsity sport, they can get a full ride easy. Its BS and the girls know it, its sexist in the girls favor. BUT, Female rights are lacking and as a male i am disappointing in things like the glass ceiling, and other things mentioned above. This feminist thing is BS, because it goes both ways, and subscribing to anything is dumb.
I look at a women no different then I would a man. Therefore I speak to you the same way I would speak to any other human being. Equality is what you guys fought for after all.
I think another problem is that too few people know what feminism is or of it's different schools. Feminism is the idea that a) all sexes are equal , b) people are treated differently b/c of their sex and c) "b" is wrong. That's all. From that many have developed different schools that vary in...fervor. No one denies that women are given "perks", but again, this is (usually) only if they play into patriarchy. If a woman didn't have to think of the "advantage" she'd have if she "looked good" , then there would be no problem. (and what of the "ugly chicks" who don't have access to these "privileges"?) Since most paths are blocked by the male ego, some women see no other option. So it's still oppressive to women. Also, so what? car insurance and the power of "sweet talk" don't invalidate "the feminist thing", sexism/chauvinism is still a large(r) problem and the majority of life isn't a breeze b/c we have breasts.
Just a question for you (and anyone else who'd like to answer): Do you think that an unattractive man has the same number of doors open to him than an attractive woman? Whether it's more or less, I'm interested to hear what you have to say. Because people seem to be fixating on looks a lot, maybe it's an attractiveness problem, rather than a gender problem. A lot of people who've commented here have commented on hot women getting preferential treatment, treating men like shit, etc. For those who claim that this evens out sexism, why do you think so?
Agreed. (the pic below is just funny so I felt like posting it, I am in no way sexist or against females or feel they rank under men in life)
I hate that you felt the need to clarify you weren't sexist. It's soo fucking bad in our society that if you make a joke that's non pc or post something like that, you feel the need to explain yourself before hand so you don't get hit with a shit storm. How stupid is that?
First of all, I'd like to say wow ... I honestly anticipated a lot of replies telling me to stop whining or to shut up. I guess that just reveals my cynicism regarding this topic. I'm willing to admit that I'm far too sensitive about these kinds of issues, but I still think they are important. You're right about that ... probably in different ways, though, like a gold digger or the girl that always goes for the "bad boy" for his image even though he treats her like crap. That's another interesting thing to think about. Men are taught from an early age that they're not supposed to cry or show any other emotion other than anger, which of course is harmful to them. I guess that would be an example of sexism going the other way around, because clearly these guys have so much bottled emotion inside of them that they just go berserk one day (and I guess being mentally ill doesn't help either ...). I definitely think society harms boys by teaching them that they're fags if they cry or act in a way that's considered feminine. Yep. The ball is in our court (and by "our" I mean womankind) now. I think most men are open to the concept of equality between the genders, I just think women just need to earn it ... in the workplace, in their relationships, in their family life. I also think that most men would stop behaving in sexist ways if they weren't too ignorant to realize how backwards their behavior is. That's not true at all. I acknowledge that there are some people that are more attractive than others, but I think the DNA they inherited has nothing to do with their worth as a human being. When I see unattractive men commenting on the looks of other women, I think, "don't throw stones in glass houses." It's incredible that you can honestly accuse me of being as shallow as these men just because I pointed out the irony in an unattractive person holding standards for other people that he can't even meet. Seriously ... That's just an immature and stupid thing to say to someone online who is a total stranger to you. Whether I'm insecure or not is totally irrelevant to this conversation. I'm not really interested in exchanging insults ... Men can be considered sexy for their charisma, their eccentric looks (Johnny Depp, Prince, etc ...), their sense of humor, etc .... but the attractive female body has been pinned down (more or less) to a science. But in a way, I think this kind of damages men more than women, because they constantly have a standard for women that can't be met in reality, whereas women are more realistic and thus more likely to be satisfied sexually by the man they're with. (of course I'm not referring to ALL men, but rather those that voted for Pamela Anderson as the "Sexiest Woman Alive"). I agree with you, but I do think our society puts too much an emphasis on these traits, so much that the personality, intelligence, and abilities of an attractive woman are often overlooked. No, because we live in a historically patriarchal society .... You're right. That's why academic feminism is taking an integrative approach towards these issues (class discrimination, racial discrimination, etc...) and realizing that they're all more or less connected. Your post made me realize how much pressure men have to deal with, some of them that I hadn't even though about before. But still, it's still acceptable (if not desirable) for a man to be mediocre but no so much a woman. I mean, look at Homer from The Simpsons and Peter from the Family Guy ... and their wives are perfect angels. Where is the female version of Homer and Peter? *claps* I think the problem is that society has this evolving standard of beauty that is slowly becoming so comically unrealistic that even supergorgeous models are having to be airbrushed to meet them. To look at a model who is starving herself and got breast implants and compare your girlfriend to her ... that hurts your relationship. Beause very few women are willing to physically harm themselves for beauty. Speaking of guys, my boyfriend is wondering what the fuck I am doing on the computer and why the hell I'm taking so long so I'm going to read all of this later ... I don't want to seem self-important, as someone else said, sexism is just as big of an issue as racism, class discrimination, etc etc etc ... You guys really made me think about this issue in a different light.
it is stupid, but it is sad reality and it is the internet. It's a serious thread so I made it clear that I was not being serious.
It is a gender problem. Someone else mentioned it but I have also noticed alot of "conventionally unattractive" men openly insult or judge women based on looks.I've also noticed that this is MUCH less accepted when done the other way around. Women, in order to be considered attractive (by most) ,have to work out, diet and "look good"; while men are "allowed" to gain weight, not shave/bathe and appear to be adorable (or something). I understand that men also have physical standards amongst each other, but it's still not as severe as with women. Think of all the time and money that goes into advertising and selling products that "help" women by making them feel insecure? Attractiveness comes up. b/c it's been used as a weapon against women for so long and the standards are gradually getting harder to achieve.
(this message is directed at the video, not kokopelli) I find how conveniently the maker of this video avoided the smaller male characters like Aladdin, Tarzan (compared to Gaston I'd say hes significantly smaller), Prince Eric, Prince Charming (cinderella), Prince from Snow White, Prince from Beauty and the Beast (human form), The prince from Sleeping Beauty, Peter Pan, Robin Hood, Emperor Cuzco, Milo(?) from Atlantis, and I'm sure many more. The female leads tend to avoid the characters like "Gaston" and end up "doing the right thing" and "following their heart" depending on what their situation is. Also, using images from movies with dramatic drawing styles (hercules?) and implying that this is how Disney is telling your daughter to look says to me that you'd rather your daughter learn her values from Disney movies rather than from her mother(s) and/or father(s), or have all Disney movies only show the values that you yourself believe, regardless of what other parents might think (considering the size of the audience). Disney cannot cater to your specific entertainment/value teaching needs, and you can't assume that your child is so stupid to believe that she should look JUST like cinderella when she grows up... and if she is then you need to communicate what you believe to be proper to your child more clearly. And the whole "they're disproportionate" argument is just so tired and retarded that I honestly can't take it seriously. I have never been under the impression that any doll or cartoon character is going to be anatomically correct and I certainly was never so stupid as a child that I thought that grownups looked that way and that I should look that way. Children are young, they're not all stupid. I gained my insecurities from my grandmother and family, not from Disney. My grandmother and little brother would call me fat, pinch my arms and tell me what a fatty I was, even though I was very skinny, and my parents did nothing to stop it. Disney and Barbie had absolutely nothing to do with it. I really wish that people (especially parents) would stop picking apart cartoons and dolls, saying that toy companies are ruining our children when it really is the parents who aren't teaching their kids what to expect of themselves realistically. You can't expect Disney to teach your child everything, and communicating with your kid (like the video mentions) is a good thing, but I certainly wouldn't attempt to paint this evil image of disney simply because Snow White says to "whistle while you work" and the Villain (ie, the one who is wrong/loses/killed at the end of the movie) says "the one who holds her tongue gets the man", OMG now they're sexist becaue Snow White cleaned the house of the men who allowed her to stay with them! You have to look at the whole picture. I don't know I honestly find sexism to be stupid, but I also find some forms of feminism to be stupid as well. I don't mind a man opening a door for me or helping me with something thats heavy or simply being a gentleman. I also don't mind men having sex drives, since I have one too. And any person who is offended with 1-10 scales put on women should never be just as bad and judge others based on their looks, no matter how fat and ugly they are. I find it completely retarded that feminist forums are/were all out in rage over that "fat princess" game or how Laura Croft's boobs are so huge. Are you really so insecure that you need to demonize video game makers for making characters super attractive/ugly? It just gets me I guess. I understand things like equal pay and the right to vote and not be beaten by your husband. Those kinds of things are easy to understand when it comes to women's rights, but seriously, are ALL these other technicalities necessary? Why aren't men getting upset at all the super unrealistically hot/ugly/skinny/fat male characters? Why don't men go into an outrage whenever a heavily stereotypical male character is shown? Isn't that sexist somehow? Should we only allow plain and boring looking things for us to look at so we don't have to teach our children simple values considering appearances and relationship building? Is there any possibility of hurting NOONE'S feelings in this kind of thing? If not then why bother with the little things like "big boobs" and "big muscles"? Surely if you're being an attentive parent and not sticking your child in front of these things just to get some time alone (Disney is not your babysitter) there is no problem with how your child sees it right? I know a lot of blame is placed on parents, but lets get real here, parents are our role models whether we like it or not. How they are affects how we end up becoming, and you can't rely on cartoons and dolls to teach your kids basic values. You as a parent have to step up to the plate and realize that YOU have the final say in what your young children watch and how you teach them, and you have to do whats best. You can't go about blaming television and GTA for your child's behavior problems or Disney for your child's body image issues when it really comes down to what you teach and how you build your child's self esteem and view of the world. Sorry this turned into a huge rant, those are just my thoughts on the whole thing. This isn't directed at the person I quoted or at the OP necessarily, just me ranting about the topic in general and the video. Peace
I think the sexism in Disney is mild compared to everything else in the media. I think you're right, the TV can't be your child's babysitter. And many of the women in the Disney movies (Jasmine, Ariel, etc ...) actually were really strong female characters who disobeyed their father or other authority figures. I'm sorry, I just have to say that's just a totally dumb thing to accuse me of. I don't judge people based on their looks, but guess what?! Some people are attractive! And some people aren't! It's a fact! Merely pointing out the IRONY in the fact that an unattractive person would comment on the body of another person is not judgmental, but maybe this is too hard of a concept for people to grasp ... Fucking ridiculous. That's beacuse there are no super unrealistically hot characters in movies or TV shows. If you could name one I'd be interested to know. Most women are not attracted to super-thin men or men that have been obviously surgically "enhanced". There are very few movies in which the female lead character is not gorgeous. There are many movies in which the male lead character is average/below average, yet somehow gets paired with a gorgeous girl in the movie. There's also an age cap on actresses, once they get past a certain age they don't get to be in movies anymore, but 45-year-old actors are constantly playing roles and being paired with 23-year-old actresses. Is that real life?
lol. So let's ignore it and pretend it's not there? Ignorance is bliss, I guess, but it doesn't make the world better for your children. I wonder how that kind of attitude would have worked out during the Civil Rights movement ....
Can't believe I am going to admit this, but I was in the military (Air Force), and I got WAAAAYYYYY better treatment than my male collegues...favored even. Some should join the military...Everybody regardless of raced, color, religion, etc. gets paid the same (based on rank), attend the same training, work side by side, etc. etc... I am certain that a lot of women in the military would say the same thing.