I never understood how people rage so hard over Israel, but completely ignore far worse scenarios, and even attack you for pointing them out Could you imagine if people had the same energy to a case that's obviously morally fucked; North Korea? Their citizens suffer daily, and unlike the Israel-Palestine conflict, there is no grey area here. It's clear black and white, the NK dictatorship is clearly evil and oppressive and deeply destructive to their population, far worse than Israel and Palestine But no, all the rage is for the only democracy in the region of oppressive dictatorships and the only jewish country in the world. Embarassing imo
You stated "western nation" created Israel via UN vote. USSR voted in the UN for the creation of Israel. therefore if your making the claim that Israel was created by Western Nation via the UN vote that is incorrect. The foundation of Israel creation as far as i'm concerned is the Balfour Declaration via British, considering they possess Palestine in the aftermath of the collapse of the ottoman empire. i would even say the Nationalist Socialist of Germany with the Transfer Agreement. Claiming it was "western nations" is an over simplifications of history and not accurate.
I don't give a shit about Palestine, or the plight of the Palestinians, but it's important that people understand why we're being attacked. Israel is a cancer on American Foreign Policy, If radical islam is attacking the USA, because of our freedoms, why aren't they attacking, Singapour, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Mexico City, and ETC ... Islamic Radicals Attack the US for a multitude of reasons, 1) The ability to purchase oil below market value. 2) Supporting Dictators in the Islamic World 3) Support for Israel. Supporting for Israel is a recurring trend among the majority of terrorist organization. The Israeli have supported: 1) ISIS 2) Spied on the US (Johnathan Pollard) 3) Attacked the US Liberty 4) Via Proxys in Western Nation, Bribe, Extort, Blackmail, political leaders. 5) Push War for Iraq and Iran, Until people realize that American Soldiers are dying to protect the Geo political superiority of Israel within that region, we're never going to be able to end the War in the middle east. I've posted this video, multiple times, Listen to Dr. Michael Scheuer EX CIA head of operations. His testimony in front of congress detailing why Americans are being attacked. i've posted it so many times and I know so many people over look this video, i'm not here arguing to be right or wrong, but people need to be awoken. Israel is a great country, I hope it succeeds, but it shouldn't cost a fucking american life or an american dollar. ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHl1JnQoIWQ
Why are you grasping at straws? Because the USSR was part of the UN means the western powers didnt create Israel? That would be like saying the democrats didnt create obama care because a republican voted for it, it is a fallacy. I didn't say western nations I said western powers, as I said nations are just tools of the powers. And of course it is an over simplification, I am not writing a history book (nor could I) I mean if we want to get right down to it we can just say it was the Rothschilds, that would probably be as accurate as anything. Still though, you claiming the Balfour Declaration was the foundation is a red herring, we already agree there. From the ADL "In November 1917, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, announcing its intention to facilitate the "establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."" Also from the ADL "The British concluded that they could no longer manage Palestine and handed the issue over to the United Nations. On November 29, 1947, after much debate and discussion, the UN recommended the partition of Palestine into two states one Jewish and one Arab. The Jews accepted the UN resolution while the Arabs rejected it." Either way, we agree, the U.S. should not have any financial liability to Israel.
1) "Because the USSR was part of the UN means the western powers didnt create Israel?" - Yes, it's a flawed statement, if you intended to say the UN, fair; but you specifically picked "western powers", let's look at the context of the nations at that time in 1945-1948 are considered to be a "western powers" "Western Powers" France - War-Torned, Rebuilding Belgium: War-Torned, Rebuilding Netherlands: War-Torned, Rebuilding Italy: Overthrew Benito Mussolini Turbulent political environment Spain: Francisco Franco, had political instability between due to Francisco Franco decision to be supporting the axis powers. The United Kingdom: (Victor) Despite having high debt, the one out of the few nation that can rightfully claim Western Power, as it's government did not succumb to the Nazi war machine. United States of America (VIctor): Despite having high debt, the one out of the few nation that can rightfully claim Western Power, as it's government did not succumb to the Nazi war machine, USSR: (Victor) Not A Western Power. 2) "That would be like saying the democrats didnt create obama care because a republican voted for it, it is a fallacy." - Well, Obamacare idea originated from Romneycare in Massachusetts a Republican plan, so i'm a bit conflicted at your analogy. Obamacare vs Romneycare - Difference and Comparison | Diffen 3) "I didn't say western nations I said western powers, as I said nations are just tools of the powers. And of course it is an over simplification, I am not writing a history book (nor could I)" - Yes, I pointed that out earlier it was an oversimplification, but I've notice more and more people have discussions about complex ideas and are oversimplifying the reality, I understand it may be trivial or even childish to have a discussion about something so minute, but it's important to understand these small things, because you can understand the context. The arabs that inhabit the land in palestine thought process is, who gave Lord Balfour the right to promise our land away; hence the problem we have now; therefore the British is responsible for this cluster fuck. Had no promises were made, no declaration would've been brought forward to the United Nations/League of Nations. 4) "I mean if we want to get right down to it we can just say it was the Rothschilds, that would probably be as accurate as anything." - Yes, I agree! 5)"Still though, you claiming the Balfour Declaration was the foundation is a red herring, we already agree there." - I disagree, had the British never promised a land that wasn't rightfully their to the Zionist Foundation, then it wouldn't lead to the United Nations/League of Nations for vote. Within your same source you cited; the British Mandate was still into effect on the same date leading up Israel Creation. "The British mandate over Palestine officially terminated at midnight, May 14, 1948. Earlier in the day, at 4:00 p.m., David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the creation of the State of Israel and became its first prime minister. Longtime advocate of Zionism in Britain Chaim Weizmann (1874-1952) became Israel's first president. On May 15, the United States recognized the State of Israel and the Soviet Union soon followed suit." Creation of the State of Israel Here's another source: "Theresa May has said that Britain is “proud of our pioneering role in the creation of the state of Israel” at a gala dinner in London to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Balfour declaration." May lauds UK role in creation of Israel at Balfour centenary dinner 6) "Either way, we agree, the U.S. should not have any financial liability to Israel." - Yes // Just my 2 cents I don't understand debate tactics such as strawman and fallacies; those things are inventions that are meant to obscure/discredit the search for the truth. I don't understand, nor use those tactics. I simply find sources, fact check said sources via cross referencing those sources, and think critically and logically prior to publishing my thoughts. I think people waste their time learning debate tactics, instead investing those times to tackle serious questions facing our society. I've always believed truth doesn't fear scrutiny.
The value in learning logical fallacies, in my opinion, is so that I can avoid them in my reasoning or in debates. If people were aware of at least the top 10, conversations and debates would go so much more smoothly. Like when you restated that the Balfour Declaration was the foundation for Israel, yes we both agree, but the disagreement was that I said Israel was created in 1948, after WWII and after the US was a super power. Your contention was that it was created before WWII and before US was a super power, which is wrong. I called it a red herring because it appearred to me you were trying to misdirect away from what we were actually arguing. Either way, no hard feelings from me, I still love you but I will opt out of this debate. Before making that statement again, I will just blame 'Lord Rothschild' instead of the plural 'western powers' unless I come across evidence there was further collusion.
you sir, win the internet today with this one. or yesterday, whenever it was typed up lol. Agree completely.
The Israelis have been campaigning for a new homeland since they were exiled to Babylon in 597 BC. Napoleon campaigned for a new homeland for Israel among other people in history. It's nothing new. It finally happened in the 20th century. The Holocaust was seized on as the final reason they could use to justify it.
I can identify several GC users I'd like to see get deleted for espousing vitriol and hatred towards the US. Talking smack is fine if done with a teaspoon of respect. What these people herein do is borderline 'hate speech'. Ban 'em! Bolt
If you look at the multitude of anti Isreal and America threads those users have it's very clear it's hate speech and also very clear they have an agenda. "Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin' Tossed salad and scrambled eggs.."
Criticism doesn't equate to hate and the only agenda I have is America First. Israel isn't worth an American Life or an American Dollar. Saudi Arabia isn't worth an American Life or an American Dollar. Pakistan isn't worth an American Life or an American Dollar. China isn't worth an American Life or an American Dollar. Iran isn't worth an American Life or an American Dollar. * Isn't worth an American Life or an American Dollar.
I wouldn't say those places aren't worth it, but if history tells us anything it is that those dollars and lives haven't helped anyone or has made things worse. I would be willing to give my life for the liberty of others, but that isn't the goal when the U.S. intervenes and I am not entirely convinced tou can give people liberty, it has to be earned/taken/asserted.
This is the point I'm trying to convey "No foreign country is worth American Life or an American Dollar," No foreign country is worth American Life or an American Dollar, it's one thing from an individual perspective, but I'm speaking from the perspective of foreign policy. You have to understand, this isn't about some warped social justice ideology, it's one thing for you to have personal "feelings" for another country, but to transcribe said feelings into policy and order American boys and Americans girls to fight for a foreign cause is absurd. I don't think taxing the hard working American people for foreign causes, to fund wars, weapons sales, support political oppositions in foreign nations, support foreign military (NATO), and bribing foreign nations; benefit the average american;
Even if true, hate speach is still speech and the speaker should be free to speak it. You can't believe in free speech unless you are offended by it. I've been over this with P many times too, you either believe in free speech (hate speech included) or you don't. Simple as that. When you start to censor speach because you don't like what the person is saying and condemn it as hate speech then you no longer can claim support of free speech. This is all or nothing, not free speech unless you say "x,y or z" then you have no rights. That's not how freedom works.
Sure free speech is fine but this forum isn't for free speech. If it was we could talk about other drugs, guns etc. "Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin' Tossed salad and scrambled eggs.."
I agree but what do you think of hate speech that isn't true? Should we have the freedom to slander with lies?