Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Happy To Burn, Oct 30, 2014.

  1. Thoughts on education, why it helps us and why it fucks us.
  2. It helps us if there's not an agenda, other than education itself.
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  3. k-12 public schools are state-deductible daycare centers. very few kids learn anything.
    being taught nothing except that the ability to remember things better than others
    somehow makes you superior. they don't teach you about banking / credit at all because
    they want you to be blinded on how they go about stealing your hard earned money.
    then come the college student loan traps and expensive tuition alongside credit card
    bills that they won't finish paying off until they're dead. Granted you are driven and
    motivated after high school, I believe there's only 2 real paths to choose.. get hired entry
    level part time and go to school part time, or skip school all together and work for
    your experience and risk the loss in knowledge and experience. Education is dire
    in our society today... Recently, a European country completely wiped out all
    costs for college tuition... why? they actually care about their next generations
    being well educated, unlike greedy americans who will nickel and dime you until
    your great great grandchildren are in debt. Knowledge is power!
  4. #4 Infinite Experience, Oct 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2014
    “Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is.”
    ― Isaac Asimov
    I love that quote because not only do I think it is the only kind of education it is the best kind.The way public schools teach doesn't really appeal to a lot of people and they don't retain a lot of the information because it's just the same thing over and over each year, usually. The internet is the greatest source of information in the world, and it's at anyone's disposal, don't get me wrong I loved History in High School but that's about all I retained because that's what I was interested in, you see what I'm saying? The internet is a very good tool for the best education possible :)
  5. What you're saying is true, but access to formal education and that environment is very important. That's not something you can get on the internet. I always wish I could go back to school and have a good learning experience like I had with a couple subjects and teachers in my school career, but post secondary education was such a boring waste. It needs to be done better.
  6. isn't there always an agenda?

    There is no such thing as an unbiased organization of facts

    Even truth is always selected and presented in a manner to skew perspective

    That's why he said self education is the only real education above. One must willingly take in the view from each perspective and seek out additional perspectives on their own

  7. In my case it's more of a preference, I can't stand being in a classroom, unless it's quiet. I definitely agree it needs to be done better, like they should have kids classes be based on an assessment test, like whatever they're best at they get put into to learn more about, I think Japan or some other Asian country does this.
  8. Trust me, the whole of it can be simplified a lot. The real nature of education shouldn't have any bureaucracy involved. It should be a person wanting to teach and a person wanting to learn. It should be an active effort from both parties to make the best and most conducive learning environment. It should be without involvement of a state or government. I completely believe in privatised education without the idea of a large institution determining your merit based on arbitrary concepts of what determines intelligence and merit.
  9. Education from K - 12 is also a form of forced mental conditioning; it creates people that behave in the way a society wants them to. I think this is the main reason why we find it so important for people to get an education. Without education, people might just do whatever they want, and that would be chaotic. 
  10. #10 Thejourney318, Oct 31, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2014
    Well, I will give my personal complaint of our educational system. Well, I have more than one complaint. But, I'll go into the most relevant complaint in my life, that has defined my experience. It's also gonna be kind of a person story, but I really do think it is a real problem that we need to do something about.  School was always very easy to me. More and more over time I realized how much easier it was for me than it was for others. I sort of developed a sense of self-identity around this. I enjoyed getting the highest grades on things despite never doing homework, studying, or even generally paying much attention. It made me look and feel smarter, not only that I was getting the high grades, but was doing basically nothing other than taking the tests and getting high grades. That in particular became the focus of my self-identity. Other people got high grades, but they always did all the work, always studying. I thought, anyone could get high grades if they study and do the's meaningless. It's a real mark of intelligence to do nothing and still get high grades. So I admit, I made a bit of a show of never turning in homework, sleeping in class, etc. Then when I would still get the highest grade on the test, that really showed how smart I was.
    I wouldn't always get the highest overall grades in the classes, because I literally almost never did homework. So if the class was homework based, I wasn't going to get a good grade overall. But, I would always get great grades on tests, and papers if I wrote them. Honestly, I never even really considered the thought of me not being successful. It just didn't even register in my mind. Everyone, teachers and students, knew how smart I was. It couldn't be more obvious how easy school was to me. And so I just thought, given that, obviously I could intellectually contribute in a number of ways. I was an asset, and that would guarantee my success. Looking back, I guess it was somewhat naive and ill-conceived, but it seemed to make sense. Anyways, I graduated high school with a mediocre GPA, despite the fact that I basically always got the highest grades on the tests and papers of basically every class I ever took. Due to not doing homework. 
    I'm 23, and I'm not successful at all, financially/career-wise. lol. I've taken some college, my GPA is mediocre, same story. I've gotten A's on every class that was not homework-based, and I've gotten shitty grades in every class that was, despite doing great on tests/papers. I'm not in school now, can't go back until I pay off some money I owe. But it's clear to me now that being smart means nothing in terms of your success. I wish I could talk to myself when I was younger and explain that. I still can be successful. I believe that when I can get back in school, I will do better, because getting a job, and living on my own for a while, has given me a sense of responsibility that I never had before. And so I think that will help me to do the work required to actually do well in school, in terms of overall-grades. And if nothing else, my plan that isn't college-based is to take up studying computer programming again, which I did for a bit before and I really enjoyed it and it came very easy to me. Then get certified or whatever, and I can be pretty successful with that.
    But my point here, is that I truly believe the educational system needs to do something about this. I think it somehow should be set up that smart people have a path to success. I know that actually it is common enough for it to be a 'type' of person, 'smart slacker.' I know studies have been done that show that a lot of the smartest people perform quite poorly in school. It may sound like an excuse, but honestly when school comes very easily to you, it can be hard to motivate yourself to want to do homework. If you can do nothing and get an A on the test, you really feel like, why am I doing this busy work. There's no point, I'll still get a better grade than everyone else. And again it may sound like an excuse, but I believe it is a real problem. That's the reason that so many smart people do not perform in school. This post has already become quite long, so I'm not even going to get into potential solutions. But I genuinely believe that this is a real problem, and something should be done about it. 
  11. Dude... i was the exact same way lol.
    Democracy and government education is canned 'FREEDOM'.
  13. #13 yurigadaisukida, Nov 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2014
    I'd like to play devils advocate here and say that state compulsory education ends up having little effect on the final product anyway

    Its not as though all Americans share the same ideals spewed in school/media

    I think Wed see a lot.more unity if it worked

    I'd also like to point out that mimicry is in our genes

    People are compelled to want to.copy into society and society is compelled to teach people to conform

    Its a survival trait

  14. I was thinking about this the other day- university/college specifically. I have classes for 1-3 hours a day, and the rest of the time it's basically self-instruction. In class we bounce around from topic to topic and it is not always a productive use of time. You rarely get to see your instructor and he/she is always pressed for time.
    Going way back to the old days, if you wanted to do something you would apprentice with a knowledgeable master, and you would study 10+ hours a day until one day you are a master and can pass along what you learned.
    However, I find myself not looking forward to some of the course work because I have to do it- there is deadlines, pressure, tests and evaluations.
    When studying something on my own, I enjoy it way more because it doesn't 'have' to be done. I can get much deeper into it and relax, knowing I don't have to memorize or recite or be tested on it. Self-instruction is the way to go, and I think we will see more of it in the future, thanks to increasing amounts of information readily available on the internet
  15. Education obviously makes people smarter, but the system is so fucked that it's so easy to abuse now.
  16. I wouldn't say it makes them smarter, it definitely makes them more knowledgeable though. Intelligence is very subjective and there's no real way to measure it.
  17. K through 12 is mostly memorization then you get to college where a series of aptitude test screen out the average and dumb people so the elite can take their place as management or rulers.

    I would complain but it keeps things moving.
  18. I'd say there are four layers of education:

    Basic: Teaches you the basics needed for wage slavery.

    Indoctrination: The unofficial guide to social boundaries and rules. Usually enforced by peer pressure and social stigmatization.

    Personal: Misguided attempt to get a formal education in a personal interest or hobby. This typically doesn't give you the credentials needed to find realistic employment.

    Career: Any additional formal education that gives you the credentials necessary for realistic, respectable employment.

    How many people get the final layer?
  19. #19 Infinite Experience, Nov 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2014
    This all depends on what you're going into. Let's say you're going into the computer field, you don't necessarily need a degree or a certificate, you can just show an employer your work, like the software you've made etc. They look for the work ethic, dedication and proof of your work rather than the time you spent in college
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  20. That educating yourself out of a personal drive and interest is considered misguided and useless in our society is a sad commentary about our society's misguided views on education more than anything else.

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