DWC feeding Issues

Discussion in 'Growing Marijuana Indoors' started by Johny Apple DWC, May 15, 2010.

  1. So I'm on my third crop in DWC and I seem to be encountering the same problems over and over. Now set aside that up to this point I've been battling bugs constantly and think I finally have a hold on things. So the problem you ask. Well its like this. My plants are about 7 weeks into flower and haven't really filled out that well. They seem to eat for maybe three days and then my tds stays the same or rises. I can never seem to tell if they are under fed, over feed, or suffering lock out. Example day 43 flower tds is 740 and 6.3 ph. The next day, 44 tds is 560 and 7.2 ph. I add nutes to bring the tds back up to 810 and adjust ph to 6.4. 10 hours later the same day tds is 720 and ph 6.6. The next day, 45 tds is 680 ph 7.0. I bring it back up to 850 and 5.9. Day 46 the tds is still 850 and 6.4 ph. I thin the mix down to 820 and 6.4. Day 47 it remains the same 820 and 6.4. Day 48 the mix goes up 10 tds. I assume their overfed and start with clean water again and try to feed less. Day 48 still, lower tds of 430 and 6.4. Day 49 no change. Now I'm wondering if their not eating because the tds is to low so I up the dose to 690 and 5.9. Day 50 tds 720 and 5.8 ph. I could keep going here but doubt that would help. I've read tons of info on DWC and everyone has their own opinions but nothing solid. I tried the Lucus formula for a bit but those numbers were way to high. My tds has never broken 1000 in flower or 400 veg. I'm looking for someone with some experience with th GH flora series in Dwc who I can see how their feeding. Maybe figure out where I'm going wrong here. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :confused:
  2. No one ? Really ? Just looking for some tried and true advise here ?
  3. #3 soapman, May 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2010
    Well first off maybe you should try using the lucas formula again, it's literally idiot proof...can't really fuck that up. Secondly I shoot for my tds to be over 1000...sometimes 1100...It usually stays around 950ish though. I use lucas formula and I don't even use my ph meter or my tds meter anymore. Flowering plants consume a lot of nutes...I generally have to add more water to my bucket every couple of days or so.

    You gave a lot of info but you left out the most important how much are you feeding them...Are you using the direction on the bottle?

    When your ph is jumping around as much as yours is there's a good chance your plants could be nute locked. Just get some florakleen and run that with straight water for a few days and than start feeding them....You shouldn't try adding nutes back if you don't know how much to add...You just kinda start over. What kind of water are you using???

    As for the bugs...If you got bugs you need to make sure you completely clean out and disinfect your growing area otherwise they'll come back..bugs are gay. You also need to make sure you get rid off any plants you have that are infected, or isolate them away from your growing are, if you want. Luckily I've never had that problem but quite a few members on here have and it's a nightmare.
  4. Nightmare on the bugs is an understatement. They've been my number one prob thus far. Thats why I'm taking a break soon and bombing everything. Sorry I did leave out some important info here. O.k I use tap water that comes out at about 7.8 ph and 130 tds. As far as feeding here are some typical days starting from 15gal new water. Apr 25, day 35 Flower add 120 ml Aquashield, 60 ml silica blast, 18 ml jumpstart, 7tsp Mycorrhizae,and 2 tsp sub culture B. Apr 26, Add 45ml AzaMax(Bugs) , 30ml micro, 90ml bloom, and 35ml Magi-cal = 5.5 ph and 590 tds. Apr 27 water is 5/8" down and readings are 6.2 ph and 490 tds. I top up with a solution of 0-20-40 gmb into 5 gal. Now reads 5.8 and 520 after adjusting p.h down as well. Apr 28 5/8" down. Reads 6.5 and 480. I adjust Ph down to 5.9. Next day ph is 5.9 and 490 tds. Top up with water from my humidifier 6.0 and 440 now. Apr 30, 5.8 and 450. I add 20ml micro and 60ml bloom and 30ml silica blast. 6.2 and 690 now. May 1, 6.2 and 670. Top up and 6.2 640. May 2, 6.3 and 650. Later that day new water again and over again we go. At this point I have a lot of tip burn and some brown spots. The edges of the leaves are also browning. Tried to tie down a branch and it cracked. Leaves are brittle as well. At this point day 56 most all of the upper center leaves under the light are yellowing pretty good. Cant tell if it's a nute thing or light burn though. Bulb is 600watt about 14" above canopy and temps at canopy stay around 74-76 degrees. Also something I'd really like to know. How do I tell the difference between Lock out and my plants having a perfect nute level. If the tds is basically staying the same and ph is slowly climbing I hear this is perfect but sometimes when this happens, I can add another or take away 200 ppm and it still just remains constant. Any thoughts on this ? And thank you very much for the reply.
  5. When your TDS is staying the same, that means you are dialed in, that they are drinking the nutes and the water. Thats what you want to achieve, TDS #'s remaining steady.

    I totally recommend the Lucas Formula. It is meant to not have to monitor PH and TDS (Although we all do). My grow is over a week in, and I have not had to add nutes back yet. My TDS is remaining constant with the Lucas Formula, and what I read is right on, it seems its the perfect amount of nutes for the grow. I am currently using 0-4-8 because thats what Lucas recommends for seedlings for the first couple of weeks. So one more week at 50% strength, then I will move to the recommended 0-8-16 for the remainder of the grow.

    But if you can get your TDS to remain constant, then your plants should be very happy because they are taking in water and nutes at an equal level.
  6. Okay, I'm gonna be honest with you and tell you that nobody is gonna help just based on the way you build your sentences, paragraphs are your friend. I'm not tryin to be a dick but this is the internet, when people see a block of text like that they hit the back button and ignore you. I'm simply tryin to help ya out, so don't take that the wrong way...and it's just a "for future reference type thing"

    Also the yellowing is a natural thing that happens to the plants. You're pretty close to harvesting, when plants get close they start sucking all the available energy to the buds from those fatty fan leaves, they turn yellow and die.

    Lockout, you're plants will stop growing. Generally speaking, a grower will notice new things in their grow room everyday...it's when you stop noticing those things, that you go uh oh. I don't know why you're so bent on you're ppms, that should be the least of your worries. PH should be you're main worry with dwc. DWC is soooo simple that you don't even need a tds meter unless you're adding back solution, really. As long as you're not over feeding them you shouldn't need to measure you tds. It doesn't hurt anything though either so, I mean. Either way I guess. I measure my ppm sometimes when I'm bored.

    I also noticed you are using tap water which you also mention is pretty high in ppms. It's a normal thing for it to be that high. Are you letting it sit overnight to at least let some chemicals evaporate??? I tried using my tap water which measures around 30ish ppms. I kept burning my plants though and couldn't figure out why, after I switched back to distilled water everything was kosh. Chlorine will harm your plants man.

    PH does slowly climb, as PH goes up ppms are usually going down, that's how it is with my set up. I start out with 5.8ph (optimal plant nutrient sucking level) and probably like 900-1100ppms of solution. As my plants intake those nutes my ppms drop and my ph starts to rise a little bit, since I only add back ph corrected water. It doesn't rise that much though...maybe to like 6.0 TOPS. Otherwise it usually stays around 5.8-5.9

    I think you're over complicating things personally with all your solutions especially that silica blast...that shit sounds like it needs to be corrected every other day or so, but, if that's your thing than.

    Good luck bro...maybe somebody can come along and better help you :wave:
  7. Sorry, I tend to jumble shit together sometimes when I'm trying to cram it all down. I usually tend to do all right untill mid flower. Thats when I have the most issues with browning tips and leaves.
    Wow, ya know maybe I am just making this way to complicated. So what your saying is if I use the Lucus formula in bloom I just start out with 8 micro and 16 bloom per gallon and then simply keep topping with P.h adjusted water untill I change the res ? I just do that all the way untill I flush ? Yes I do let the tap sit out and then bubble it for 20 min. I thought was 130 tds was fairly low compared to some tap.
    I just put them is mostly distilled water this morning with some superthrive. 6.3 and 40 tds. As yellow as their getting is it to late to feed anymore you figure ? So I should just start my flush and get what I get.
    Anyways, thanks for the help and sorry about the mess of sentences.
  8. You to BadAxe. Thanks for the input.
  9. Been two hours and the water is now 6.7 and 90 tds.
  10. #10 soapman, May 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2010
    No worries man. I know what it's like. Sometimes I type up a wall of text myself, but, than I have to go through and start separating things so people would read it.

    As for Lucas, you are correct. I actually use Floranova Bloom for my Lucas which is just 8ml per gallon of water...but for my first grow I used micro and bloom....and that's all you do, you don't even need to check your ph and ppms once you put the solution together....Like I said before I sometimes check it just to check it, but otherwise, it is what it is. And that is all you do just keep filling the bucket with the ph corrected water and after 7-10 days ish...Just depends on how much your plants intake and than refill the res and that's it my man, and watch them grow. I mean you could literally teach a monkey how to use the lucas formula imo. But you should use distilled water or R/o water would be even better. Clean water is an important element in growing. Or what you can do is use your tap and keep doing what your doing with it and pick up Micro hard water...which is ideal for tap water, regular Micro is for r/o water or distilled...basically 0 ppm water. In my experience I would say up to 50ppm is acceptable. Lucas is expandable too, once you get comfortable with it you can start adding some of your own little knic knac solutions. Like for instances for my current grow, I'm using Lucas FNB 8ml/gal and Floralicious plus. It's no longer the lucas formula but I use lucas as a base.

    You're tap water is fairly low compared to most...A lot of people especially city dwellers could be as high as 300:eek:

    I would definitely recommend just harvesting and taking your licks especially if you had bugs...Sometimes you need to do what you need to do to make sure your future grows go more smoothly.

    Good luck man, I hope things work out for ya.
  11. I am actually using the add back with nutes formula and plan on no flushes at all. I am using RO water as well. So far though, every reading has been great. TDS has remained steady. PH has creeped up a bit.

    Well, I am actually going to do one flush. For the first 2 weeks, I started using the lucas formula at the 50% strength that Lucas recommends for seedlings. So I started with 0-4-8. Since i have read that adding nutes right to the res is a no no, I can not figure how to double my nute strength in the already full res. I have asked the question several times here at GC, and at another site or 2, and never get any replies. So I will just do a flush after the 2nd week, which will be this coming weekend, and refill with 0-8-16. Then I will use the add back formula to add nutes ot my add back water, and with RO water, they say no flushes are necessary. I like no flushes. :)

    But I did install a bottling spigot in the bottom of my Rubbermaid res, so flushes should not be that difficult.

    Anyway, I totally just made this thread about me, my sincere apologies for the hijack. Peace Love and pot to you all. :) :smoke:
  12. Much appreciation to you both. I believe I'll give the Lucus Formula another try and pick up an Ro machine as I was going to early on. I just thought oh, 130 tds well thats not bad.
    As for my bugs I'm definitely taking a break for a few weeks and bombing the joint. Every crop to this point I've had issues that looked nute related but now can look back and pin point most issues to the damn fungus gnats, aphids, spider mites, or others I've yet to identify. That'll teach me to bring outside plants in to harvest. Learn from your mistakes though I suppose.
    Hopefully things will go more smoothly next grow. Thats what I love about growing though, I always keep learning. Well, that and having nugs to smoke. Sucks to harvest em this early as the trichs aren't amber at all yet, but I doubt they'll grow much more with the leaves being all yellow.
    So clean water and lucus next time it is. Maybe a flame thrower for the bugs. I thank both of you again for taking the time and wish you great success in all your own endeavors.
  13. You will have trouble with a RO machine for home use. That usually takes a long time to produce the gallons that you need. I actually purchase my RO water from a local fish store. They charge me 25 cents a gallon. I buy 15 gallons at a time.
  14. Indeed, I'd have to pick up a high flow model. Distilled water is 72 cents a gal or so. Don't know if any place round here sells Ro water.

    I have a couple questions about the lucus formula. Mostly when to start full nutes. I start with clones and they usually root in about 12 days. When they go into my dwc tubs it's usually just plain water to start or maybe very very week bloom nutes.

    When should I actually start the 4 micro 8 bloom feedings ? When they start growing ? or a certain size ? Do I bump it up 50 ppm a week or what ? My plants always seem fussy about their nute intake when their young. Thoughts ?
  15. Actually how does everyone else treat their clones when they first go in ? What if anything do they feed ? How much and for how long ? That info would be super useful to me.
  16. No one out there can give me this easy bit of information ? Are there just no amount of DWC growers on here ?
  17. Lucas Formula should fx this problem. i run it, and have no clue wut ppm or tds or any of that means, and have had 100% success!

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