I'm aware some women like to play hard to get. I've never been the type to chase a woman, but for this one in particular, i might hit a light jog. I'm a confident, good looking guy, tall, college educated, decent job, pretty fit, great sense of style. I get a good amount of attention from women, yet here i am chasing a super average chick lol ♂️. So my question is, at what point does it stop being "playing hard to get" and becomes "leave me tf alone you're wasting your time?" Does persistency work if the guy is a decent dude? Ive been wanting to cut my losses and just move on, but I just dont get the same feelings with other girls. please feel free to share any related experiences/stories
"yet here i am chasing a super average chick" tells me you may be a little conceited. She may not understand what a fine catch you'd be.
Being persistent back in the day was key... It was what worked... The idea that you could catch her in a moment of weakness, which would lead to you getting your foot into the door; once you have broken the barriers of intimacy with a women down once, those barriers tend to stay down, providing the experience was a satisfying one. Today though, our women have become entrenched in the idea of "Hypergamy", which is an idea a lot of these older, married or divorced folk, just don't really understand about today's culture. From Wikipedia: Studies of mate selection in dozens of countries around the world have found men and women report prioritizing different traits when it comes to choosing a mate, with men tending to prefer women who are young and attractive and women tending to prefer men who are rich, well-educated, ambitious, and attractive.[8] Evolutionary psychologists contend this is an inherent sex difference arising out of sexual selection, with men driven to seek women who will give birth to healthy babies and women driven to seek men who will be able to provide the necessary resources for the family's survival.[citation needed] Social learning theorists, however, say women value men with high earning capacity because women's own ability to earn is constrained by their disadvantaged status in a male-dominated society.[citation needed] They argue that as societies shift towards becoming more gender-equal, women's mate selection preferences will shift as well. Some research supports that theory,[9] including a 2012 analysis of a survey of 8,953 people in 37 countries, which found that the more gender-equal a country, the likelier male and female respondents were to report seeking the same qualities as each other rather than different ones.[10] However, Townsend (1989) surveyed medical students regarding their perception of how the availability of marriage partners changed as their educational careers advanced. Eighty-five percent of the women indicated that "As my status increases, my pool of acceptable partners decreases." In contrast, 90 percent of men felt that "As my status increases, my pool of acceptable partners increases."[11]:246 Hypergamy is an idea that is reinforced by social media, specifically, the GPS-Based dating apps that are utilized by people apart of the dating scene today... This idea that 80% of women desire 20% of men and 80% of men desire 20% of women... Well, the desires of the man largely fall flat in context to the desires of the woman... The woman is nature's gate keeper, she ultimately decides whether you get access or not... For most men, this means defining what access is... Is access being around her? Is access a coffee date? Or is access strictly about sex? For most men, access is about sex today, where as, back in the day, where persistence was key, access was simply about being around her. So, if you are persistent in being around her, I think you will eventually find some success, however, if you are persistent in simply sex, I believe your rate of success will be much lower, unless you are of the desirable 20%. The other thing that a lot of women do not understand about Hypergamy, is that most men in the 20%, who are willing to talk to them, willing to have sex with them and ultimately, willing to validate them, most of these men are already taken. These men already have a girlfriend or wife, yet are still able to give their attention away to others; these women get validated by the 20%, who are very free with their attention and as a result, these women get this blown-up idea of their own value and believe that they have access to the desirable 20% of men, when in reality, they really do not have access to these men, but rather, a portion of their attention alone. Many women find satisfaction in getting a portion of a man's attention, rather than the entire life force of a man of the 80%, less desirable men and this is where the man's distrust of the modern woman is born and vice versa.
Do you think you could explain what's different now vs about 20-30 years ago in a way that even this married older man could understand? The OP sounds like he would be a decent catch, how does this information apply to him?
For older men, who grew up in a time where you had to do most things for yourself, those older men have a higher level of Masculinity... They have a confidence in themselves born of a lifestyle of hard work. For young men today, the need to do things for oneself is minimal and with that, comes a decline in Masculinity. Furthermore, with the organization of women today, they have begun to realize that they can adopt Masculine traits and when their Masculine traits are tested, they can claim Victimization in a way that men cannot... So not only are our young men less Masculine, but the Masculinity they do possess has never been tested more by the women in our society and the consequences of those tests have never been greater, because women have such options available to them through Social Media and GPS-Based dating apps. When I use 80%-20% ratios, the Masculinity level is what is referenced. For a young man today, being a provider and the masculinity associated with that is under heavy fire... Women do not want to be provided for, they want to provide for themselves... This leaves the man at odds with his role within this society and often, as men, we can discover this role and give it definition simply by spending time around women... But women's time is important today; where as she gains nothing from one man and spending time with him, there are other men available to her, nearby, that she can gain from... So if you have nothing to provide, you don't get to spend time around women and thus, your role in this society is undefined. People have this idea of an "Incel" Wikipedia Definition: Incels, a portmanteau of "involuntary celibates", are members of an online subculture[1][2] who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one, a state they describe as inceldom.[3] Discussions in incel forums are often characterized by resentment, misanthropy,[1] self-pity,[4] self-loathing,[5] misogyny,[6] racism,[6] a sense of entitlement to sex, and the endorsement of violence against sexually active people.[7][8][9][6] The American nonprofit Southern Poverty Law Center described the subculture as "part of the online male supremacist ecosystem" that is included in their list of hate groups.[10][11] Estimates of the overall size of the community vary greatly. They are considered mostly male and heterosexual, but sources disagree on the subject of ethnic makeup. At least four mass murders, resulting in 45 deaths, have been committed in North America by men who have either self-identified as incels or who had mentioned incel-related names and writings in their private writings or Internet postings. Incel communities have been criticized by the media and researchers for being misogynistic, encouraging violence, spreading extremist views, and radicalizing their members.[2][12][13 Well, ultimately what an Incel is, is simply somebody with no resource, a lack of masculinity or a lack of attractive traits, maybe bad hygiene, etc... All of these traits are indicative of people, men, who possess potentially an un-diagnosed mental illness, but rather than being given the title of mentally ill or retarded, these men often defer to the title of Incel, because it is saw as not as bad... But this is the precedent being set by our society, where mentally ill men are not saw as mentally ill people who need help, but rather, Incels who need to be shoved into the corner and forgotten about. Mental illness has become a bigger problem than ever before due to the social withdraw saw across our entire society due to technology. Men don't have a voice anymore and any voice they do have, is immediately attacked by organized women, because these women feel threatened... Its funny, because then, these same women turn around and promote men who promote their own agendas, while attacking men who promote any agenda other than their own. All this applies to OP, because he is displaying the symptoms of Hypergamy... An above average man unable to attain an average woman, because the average woman has her sights set on other men who are way above her snack bracket and will never obtain anything from them other than their attention alone. This is something saw across most of society in regards to young people and he is not alone, even though he feels alone. And that is the motherfucker of it all, is that now, the victims of Hypergamy are all incels, even if they have attributes of a desirable mate, more desirable mates are readily available. One of the more popular terms that women identify with today is "Ethically Non-Monogamous" which basically means she does not commit to one single man, but does so in an ethical way, whatever that means. Basically, whoever has the most resources in her pool of men on this specific day, gets her time and whoever does not, does not and tomorrow is another day for another pool of men to compete for her time... This is the future, the day-to-day.
I appreciate you trying. I accept your assertion that "rugged individualism" isn't as highly valued as in years past as evidenced by the current interest in socialism as a ticket for success. As far as women being different than in times past I can't comment, I never figured them out. Regarding the OP we don't have enough information to assume he can't get an "average" woman, we only know he's having difficulty with this one. Perhaps he smokes cigarettes and she doesn't, we all have our lists of traits we find desirable, even if it's not a conscious list and most aren't. I don't think even tall good looking men with lucrative jobs and fancy cars can get any woman they want although I'm sure they have less difficulty than most of us. Thanks for the discussion.
A lot of the replies are strung up on the fact that i called her average. By average i mean: -She's average height -Average intelligence -Average body type -Not extraordinarily exciting -Regular brown hair and brown eyes -Shes cute, but not particularly super fine. She's just not the kind of girl guys would swoon over. But here i am stuck on her. I've dated prettier, smarter women with nicer, fitter bodies and more outgoing personalities. But at the end of the day, i know what i want and its her. Also to those who said im conceited, my advice to you is, you should be too. Why should we lack any confidence? I rather be overly confident than lack self esteem. I've experienced both and one is by far much better.
She sounds above average to me Stoney. I have to agree with you about self esteem and confidence and you did good by not taking offense at some of our comments.
Do you want her for her.. or are your interests in her heightened by her lack of reciprocation.. like will u still want her AFTER you get her. Or will you then be looking at all the not so average bittys you could be with.
The extraordinary women are cheating whores. Back in my day they use to like it when you walk right up to them and say hey let's bone. Try it out probably get laid. Lol but for real if you like the girl ask her out on a date and let it be know that it's a romantic date. I dont really get what you mean by chasing her? If you are mr. Baller hunky stuff like you say the panties should be coming off first date.